Live data from Hacker News

The silent majority in software

vadimkravcenko.com

161–170 of 371 posts

Re: The silent majority in software

#161
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely enough I feel that we tell ourselves again and again that this problem is not as hard, the previous iteration of programs trying to solve it were just written by incompetent people. It can be made so much easier - the program gets built but in the process the developers realize that it has plenty of edge cases not solved by this easier version and the same complexity gets bolted on later. The fact is, there…

> written by incompetent people Which is funny because most modern devops tools are written by organizations with no experience maintaining critical systems or large scale.

Well… many of those tools are written while building those critical systems and scale, so they may include both the learnings as well as the mistakes. And, frankly, most people aren’t building things that are critical or require scale (no matter what they say to make their work sound interesting).

Re: The silent majority in software

#162
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly that's why I swapped from front-end at the beginning of my career. Back end and infra moves much slower, jobs tend to be more secure and specialized, and pay seems higher overall. Learning Java back in the 00s was one of my best career moves.

Back end seems to be changing quite quickly too. Docker, k8s, serverless, a million different specialized cloud services, all kinds of non-sql DBs etc. I'm sure you can find a job doing backend that doesn't involve following these trends but you can also still find plenty of front end jobs using jQuery.

If anything, it feels like frontend has slowed down tremendously whereas backend has sped up. That said, both are pushing for more cross-discipline experience in some form (fullstack, devops, UX/UI for frontend, etc.)

Re: The silent majority in software

#163
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The seventies were an odd time - the generation who had come of age during WWII were in power. And WWII had the strangest historical anomoly - wealth was most evenly distributed post WWII than at any time prior. And it was working. It seemed a great idea to experiment with other ways to keep wealth fairly distributed. What a shame power and wealth found it's way back to the few. We will have to fix that. preferably w…

Everyone was equal because they bombed most of the existing capital until there were only smoking craters left and set the poor to killing each other. It should be a great example of why inequality is a good thing - everyone wants to solve inequality by raising the poor up to be billionaires, but the only way we actually know how is to destroy all the capital that the billionaires own so we all have access to nothing…

Throughout human history someone being wealthy almost always meant someone else being exploited - from obvious chattel slavery to less obvious trading networks

That these exploitations often created empires that created institutions that themselves promoted higher efficiency in trade (like protecting from piracy and brigands) was a good thing. But trade, whilst always a win win, can be and for empires always was structured to win more towards the centre of the empire

This structural inequality is found everywhere. In strong and weak forms. A weak form is commonly known - wealthy people "cheat" to get their kids into MIT or Harvard, (or even being wealthy is a cheat) and then the networks formed their help with access to resources later (see VC funds two kids from MIT with idea for ...)

Strong examples of structural inequality are found in say the Russian Federations army where the head of the armed forces has multiple houses and yachts and oddly the conscripts are fighting on a dollar a day and often come from rural impoverished areas.

None of this your fault.

But we choose our structures, our institutions in the same way we choose our built environments. If we have Houston-like 20 lane highways with nose to nose traffic when we could have please t walkable cities with electric trams and steeet cafes then yeah, none of that is the fault of the people in the traffic jams.

But it was a choice. A choice made in these cases in a democracy.

And we just assume that if people were given informed choices they would not have gone "hell yeah 20 lane highway".

So the solution to bad structures, bad institutions, bad urban environments is democracy. Is people making their voices heard and choices being made that are the informed choices people want (I assume most people will vote for "more equal")

Yet the next step is a leap of faith. Faith in democracy and human intelligence

The networks will work to keep themselves in power and are a centralising force (gather more power to self)

but human wealth now depends not on control of land but intelligent use of excess energy and political stability

So does someone have wealth today? That's nice. Is the structure of how they got it a fair one? Is it right that someone who has capital today should continue to direct the use of that capital? Is it fair that a founder gets 80% of the shares but the first engineer gets 1%? I know it was a trade but capitalism is structured like the above empires were structured - to benefit the capital city.

Is that the only way to structure the allocation of resources in the planet?

The use of coal and oil has seen an outrageous chnage in human wealth. Fantastic. And the conditions for that industrial revolution are so weird that tinkering with it seems so risky. but the two world wars showed that it is a fairly robust revolution- and if we want to get out from the oil / CO2 trap and into a sustainable future we need to overcome bad resource allocation - it's time to try new options. Private Companies are undemocratic and control about 50% of western wealth, is a hierarchy like that the best way to allocate and motivate resources? Most western nations are highly centralised - does that make for th best local decisions?

There are options

Re: The silent majority in software

#164
post #8

> The “silent majority” was used by President Richard Nixon during his presidency and his campaign against the Vietnam war. He spoke to the people who were not actively voicing their opinions and who were overshadowed by the vocal few who were supporting the war. This is a shocking misunderstanding of history. The “silent majority” Nixon spoke of were folks opposed to anti-war protests . Nixon intentionally prolonged…

[deleted]

Re: The silent majority in software

#165
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone was equal because they bombed most of the existing capital until there were only smoking craters left and set the poor to killing each other. It should be a great example of why inequality is a good thing - everyone wants to solve inequality by raising the poor up to be billionaires, but the only way we actually know how is to destroy all the capital that the billionaires own so we all have access to nothing…

Throughout human history someone being wealthy almost always meant someone else being exploited - from obvious chattel slavery to less obvious trading networks That these exploitations often created empires that created institutions that themselves promoted higher efficiency in trade (like protecting from piracy and brigands) was a good thing. But trade, whilst always a win win, can be and for empires always was stru…

This is why those that benefit from the current status quo are trying to dismantle and destroy education, right? We can't let the people read, know, or think about what you wrote. It's destabilizing and "dangerous" to their way of life.

Re: The silent majority in software

#166

> The “silent majority” was used by President Richard Nixon during his presidency and his campaign against the Vietnam war. Excuse me? The "silent majority" was the set of Americans who were for the war, not (loudly) protesting against it. Nixon was all for continuing the war.

That's literally what it says in the very next sentence.

"In this usage, it referred to those Americans who did not join in the large demonstrations against the Vietnam War at the time"

Re: The silent majority in software

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. This is happening, look around job board. A lot of job description look really dumb, tech stack doesn't make sense for their business at all.

It's so frustrating to find a nice job advert, then you read through the (very specific) list of requirements and you're thinking to yourself "JavaScript: Check, Node.js: Check, Postgres: Check, Docker: Check, REST: Check, WebSockets: Check, Redis: Check, RabbitMQ: Check, Distributed systems: Check, nginx: Check, Kubernetes: Check, GraphQL: DAMN IT! This was almost a match..."

Requirements aren't really that. They're really wish lists.

Such a shame, since this is ‘a great way’ to dissuade women[1].

[1]: https://hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-unless...

Re: The silent majority in software

#168
post #7

There's nothing quite like an author getting basic history completely wrong at the very beginning. Really builds confidence.

I'm flagging this; it's marketing drivel[1] devout of any sort of substance or insight. The author of the post is the submitter.

[1] the marketing here is a CTO position himself as some sort of "though leader," which I wouldn't be opposed to, if there was some sort of substance.

Re: The silent majority in software

#169
post #59

> Sometimes I’ve seen Pull Requests from empty accounts with a brief explanation of what was implemented. They just submit bug fixes, no drama. Over half my coworkers including some very talented developers have no public repos. As someone with almost 200 that always blows my mind. How do you work in software for years and not find some little hole you want to fill. That’s not a judgment call, that’s an honest questi…

If you do your day job for your employer with total dedication then you are not likely to 'need' to post public repos or get involved in slagging off different programming trends. Plus you have already heard what people have to say about your toolset and you know they know little about your domain expertise.

No word of a lie, a few years ago a 'crypto' person told me that all the code I was working exceptionally hard at was a complete waste of time. Blockchain technology would solve everything. I just had to wait. And I am still waiting!

I have a lot to show for the work I have done since that conversation with buttons I have put online getting clicked millions of times with nobody personally thanking me. It is 'silent majority' code. No idea where the 'crypto' person got, I stick to my own lane and I don't need to rubber-neck.

Although it is good to share one's work so nobody else has to reinvent the wheel, if I have a better solution and I have developed it in the context of dedication to the day job, then that software gives a commercial advantage to my employer. Even if the core of the idea is mine and that I developed it in my own time, I 'bat' for my employer, and, if it is in their interests to keep the repo private, then I will.

There is also the matter of peer review. My colleagues are too busy to spend time on my pet projects.

The 'crypto' person has one of those LinkedIn profiles where they have more than the maximum amount of connections, with all kinds of grand job titles and the rest of it. I am just a programmer and I do not need a job title. I don't even need LinkedIn and I do not spend time inventing a grander version of myself online.

For code samples I can share the code that I worked on, albeit removing any business logic that is not mine to share. In my niche, with recruiters that know me, this 'just show me the code' works fine.

What if everyone worked like me? There would be no fine repos to plunder!!! Well, there are a few pull requests I have put into public repos and the majority of the population cannot say that. Plus, if I spend two decades silently writing code, then, one day, post a repo, it is going to be good.

To be honest the code I was writing two years ago makes me cringe with shame at how naive it is, so I doubt that my efforts from before that would have been for the wider public good, even if they did fix a business problem at the time. I have sometimes had to get working code rather than beautifully refactored code, then onto the next project.

Re: The silent majority in software

#170
post #50
post #25

There are thousands of Java developers in the US who make $80,000 a year and live a fantastic life. No leetcode, no Bay Area, no FAANG. Just people writing the code responsible for our banking, travel, supermarkets and many other systems which underpin our society.

I know many developers (over 35 years old) in Europe doing the same (they earn above the average european salary, so like 140K EUR/year or so): Java, no HN, no Linkedin, no FAANG, no leetcode, no switching jobs every 2 years. They have families, they are normal people. If you ask them about monads, they would have no idea (like me) what are you talking about. That's the path I'm heading to (hopefully).

140k is well above average european salary.
Post reply on HN