Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection • Hacker News Board

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#161

Post by dont__panic » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

badpun wrote: post #128

dont__panic wrote: post #22

I've seen so much anti-car, pro-walkability, pro-transit, pro-bikeability sentiment online recently. I really hope this is proof of the younger generations -- Millenials, Zoomers, and younger folks even -- waking up to the idea that the USA in particular has become a toxic environment thanks to cars. WFH was a big wakeup call, I think -- once you step away from the commute for a year or two, trying to sit in traffic…

> Selfishly, I really want the USA to bring city centers back to livable levels by banning most cars and redesigning them for humans. Otherwise I'm absolutely going to end up moving to Europe eventually -- likely the Netherlands There isn't a single US city which meets your criteria?

Nope. And I've tried. US cities are so dominated by cars that other modes of transportation are an afterthought.

If you've ever tried to bike on an icy bike lane (when the car surface was cleared days ago), been honked at by aggressive drivers on residential streets for daring to walk or bike, been yelled at by a driver parked in a bike lane, or been stressed out by a street corner that becomes completely blind to traffic due to a huge parked car... that's what I'm talking about.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#162

Post by jgwil2 » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

dont__panic wrote: post #113

jgwil2 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd rather not learn a whole new language and leave my family and friends so far behind You could live in New York, Boston, DC, Chicago, or other dense cities with decent transit options without leaving the US entirely. It is certainly not impossible to live in the US without a car. EDIT: not really sure why this is downvoted. Just taking OP's statement that they would prefer not to uproot their whole life at face…

I have lived in multiple major US cities without a car. In NYC it's feasible, but impossible to visit family or friends who live in car-centric places. In most other cities you feel like a distant second-or-third class citizen. Swimming upstream gets tiring after a while.

Unless you move your extended family to the Netherlands too, I don't see that issue going away.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#163

Post by gnarcoregrizz » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

xhkkffbf wrote: post #61

dont__panic wrote: post #22

I've seen so much anti-car, pro-walkability, pro-transit, pro-bikeability sentiment online recently. I really hope this is proof of the younger generations -- Millenials, Zoomers, and younger folks even -- waking up to the idea that the USA in particular has become a toxic environment thanks to cars. WFH was a big wakeup call, I think -- once you step away from the commute for a year or two, trying to sit in traffic…

While I generally like the idea of city centers, I think that this kind of anti-car stuff comes off like wild-eyed propaganda. For instance, the title suggests that the places were built for cars alone, kind of like the garage where Jay Leno keeps his collection. No. The suburbs were built for people driving cars. Not just cars. People getting rides in cars, avoiding weather, sitting comfortably, transporting the han…

"Transport of the handicap and infirm... ", Cars are not ideal for disabled people. As an epileptic, the driving restrictions are one of the worst parts of the disease. I feel like I'm in a prison. I can't drive to the store, I can't drive my kids to school, I can't drive to do anything recreational. I'm literally stuck at home and 100% dependent upon someone else to do absolutely anything. Even if someone is nice enough to drive me somewhere I feel so guilty for taking their time away. Biking here sucks too, the local roads are like freeways (60+mph). The bike "lanes" are a joke. Cars are a requirement. It's so goddamn stupid and it really, really, really sucks for people like me. Its hard for me to convey how infuriating it is. Cars are not ideal for the disabled and infirm. There are a non-negligible amount of people in a similar situation as me.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#164

Post by snapscape » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

warning26 wrote: post #64

datadata wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you tie housing costs to cars?

Easy, supply and demand. Before cars, dense housing was the norm, but cars popularized spreading everything out as much as possible so you have room for wide roads and lots of parking. Less density -> less housing overall -> decreased supply -> increased prices

Not to mention the increased cost of maintaining the infrastructure for all of that suburban sprawl. The farther apart things are the more asphalt, water and sewage pipes, fire department coverage, school buses and drivers, street lamps, etc. are required. That money has to come from somewhere.

Strong Towns and Not Just Bikes has a great series on this: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6OGLN...

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#165

Post by ghostpepper » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

dont__panic wrote: post #142

AlwaysRock wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the hardest parts about buying a home, apart from all the stuff that isnt fun about buying a home, is finding somewhere that is walkable to... anything. I've rented my whole life and spent my entire adult life in cities. The idea of having to get in the car to get milk or something from the corner store, or have to drive to ANY restaurant, or not have some type of walking/running path within a few blocks of my…

Any success filtering for walkability in the US when buying a home? As far as I can tell, "walkability" scores are borderline useless -- the small town I currently live in has extremely low "walkability," despite being able to walk or bike to everything I need, whereas the large city I just left has extremely high "walkability" -- despite the fact that walking around town was not pleasant due to high volumes of car t…

What metric of walkability are you finding that is not reflective of reality? I've had at least some luck (in Canada) with https://www.walkscore.com/

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#166

Post by atwood22 » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

pickovven wrote: post #72

twblalock wrote: post #6

Most Americans want it to be that way, and that’s why it is that way. Zoning laws didn’t push people into a car lifestyle. Americans created those zoning laws because they like the car lifestyle and want to perpetuate it. The same is true for suburban zoning in general. People have not been tricked into this: this is what they want.

No one is swimming across this river so clearly we don't need a bridge. Your assertion certainly explains why the most walkable places in the country also have the highest housing costs, no one wants to live there!

And yet, the most expensive places to live in dense areas are single family homes. Like how much does a brownstone in Greenwich Village cost? 15 million? Clearly in any environment, a single family home is the most desirable option. People may be willing the settle for a different option in exchange for some other benefits like having a lot to do, but given the choice they’ll still pick a single family home.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#167

Post by dont__panic » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

sleepdreamy wrote: post #117

ryukafalz wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been tried several times in cities and by and large it seems to be profitable for the businesses.

Source? Just curious

Many European cities have walkable downtown streets closed to cars with lots of successful businesses.

Burlington, VT. Boulder, CO. Old Town Arvada, CO. All have very successful pedestrian-only streets in the USA with lots of healthy businesses.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#168

Post by mtalantikite » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

lostcolony wrote: post #130

mtalantikite wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is advocating that rural America, or even most of exurban America, should be accessible by public transit. It's just that we literally only have one city in the entire United States that has a massive subway and bus system that operates 24 hours, which allows you to live without a car. It'd be great to have more cities as dense as NYC in this country.

I don't think we need that level of density to warrant public transit. Singapore has one of the best public transit systems in the world (highest customer satisfaction rate), at 1/5th the density of NYC.

Oh absolutely, I just love living in NYC and whenever I think of where else I'd live my answer is always a city that isn't in the US. In a country this big you'd think there'd be more than one of us.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#169

Post by bowsamic » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

mrpopo wrote: post #67

twblalock wrote: post #6

Most Americans want it to be that way, and that’s why it is that way. Zoning laws didn’t push people into a car lifestyle. Americans created those zoning laws because they like the car lifestyle and want to perpetuate it. The same is true for suburban zoning in general. People have not been tricked into this: this is what they want.

Most people want what they have been told to be desirable. No offense to free thinkers out there, but our mind is mostly shaped by our experiences in society.

It is ironic that the thread that demonstrates Americans' philosophy of car-loving also demonstrates Americans' philosophy of decision making. Sure Bobby, you're in control, this was all your decision :)

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#170

Post by aikinai » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:57 PM UTC

badpun wrote: post #128

dont__panic wrote: post #22

I've seen so much anti-car, pro-walkability, pro-transit, pro-bikeability sentiment online recently. I really hope this is proof of the younger generations -- Millenials, Zoomers, and younger folks even -- waking up to the idea that the USA in particular has become a toxic environment thanks to cars. WFH was a big wakeup call, I think -- once you step away from the commute for a year or two, trying to sit in traffic…

> Selfishly, I really want the USA to bring city centers back to livable levels by banning most cars and redesigning them for humans. Otherwise I'm absolutely going to end up moving to Europe eventually -- likely the Netherlands There isn't a single US city which meets your criteria?

I'm not the grandparent, but I've looked a lot and I don't think there is a single city. New York is the only place you can reasonably live car free without feeling like you're handicapping yourself to make a statement, but it's also very specific type of city that comes with a lot of other baggage (e.g. expensive, overly dense and urban, arguably not where you want to raise kids, etc).

There are plenty of cities where you can live parts of this life, for example when you're young. But when it's time for a family there's basically nowhere in the US you can avoid the house-and-two-cars typical American lifestyle (except New York City with lots of money).