Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 283 posts

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#161

Post by texasbigdata »

2sk21 wrote: post #160

from the manufacturer's viewpoint the main problem with EVs is that there is much less scope for differentiation in the power train. Most manufacturers are going to be using similar battery technology. I think that motor technology will also become commoditized in due course. The only areas where manufacturers can genuinely differentiate themselves will be styling and software.

And aero performance? And materials? And reliability? And availability of support (and charging, although that will go away), and resale market depth/liquidity? And branding? And interior layouts (the Lincoln grotesque most recent model car as an example)? With features (the giant tesla glass sunroof)? With new innovation (further soundproofing)? With more efficiency (greater energy recapture on breaking)?

I don't know, once there's 20 credible manufacturers in this space I bet they will compete in any way possible. Just like any other industry.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#162

Post by texasbigdata »

rsynnott wrote: post #148
devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. This company really has made Jobs' reality distortion field pale in comparison. Without comment on the specific innovation in the article, it's a _very_ weird assumption that all innovation in a field would stem from one company. That's…

I think the reticence is the old attitude that you basically had to drag the old car manufacturers to electric, then they insisted on doing design after design of the clearly inferior hydrogen alternative, it's hard to take them seriously now that they're just responding to stay relevant / alive. If they really "cared" about EV this would have come 20 years earlier given the sheer scale of endowed resources they had. Of course that's not a fair evaluation of them, but one perspective on how it'd be easy to be cynical.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#163

Post by throwawaylinux »

h0l0cube wrote: post #159
throwawaylinux wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about experts on how we should live and structure society as a whole. Climate science is one tiny part of that calculus. And no climate scientist has told me I should lock myself in my house and eat cockroaches while they gallivant in their private jets from mansion to mansion and gorge themselves on quail tongues and sturgeon eggs. EDIT: I didn't mean to say climate change is not happening or having nega…

> Gore, Obama, Trudeau, Gates, and DiCaprio as my guiding stars on this matter Terrible choice of guiding stars. The scientists that have been studying this and raising the alarm bells since the 70s are the guiding star. If you're feeling threatened by what the scientists are saying, and believe in them, I couldn't see how your protest is an honest attempt to help the situation. I agree most celebrity activists are h…

> Terrible choice of guiding stars.

So you confess your extremist heretical beliefs in denying the integrity, honesty, and expertise in the ruling of society of these people? Sounds like a dangerous, seditious thing to think.

> The scientists that have been studying this and raising the alarm bells since the 70s

Of course, I would never doubt The Science of climate change. What I am talking about is what we should do about it as a collective societal response. And that takes a different kind of expert, and those experts have decided that the correct response is to amass vast wealth, buy beachfront mansions and yachts and fly around on private jets and perhaps also to destroy Libya on occasion.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#164

Post by automatic6131 »

devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

>As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant.

Why would you say something so wrong yet so bold?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#165

Post by gregoriol »

2sk21 wrote: post #160

from the manufacturer's viewpoint the main problem with EVs is that there is much less scope for differentiation in the power train. Most manufacturers are going to be using similar battery technology. I think that motor technology will also become commoditized in due course. The only areas where manufacturers can genuinely differentiate themselves will be styling and software.

Combustion engines haven't changed that much in the last 50 years, and most brands use similar designs. Rolls-Royce and Bentley have been using the same engine design for ages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce–Bentley_L-series_V...). Differentiation is not on one part.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#166

Post by kolinko »

audunw wrote: post #151
jillesvangurp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if the motor is part of the wheel.

But it wouldn't be part of the wheel... there's no reason for it to be, and it'd make the car impossible to use in countries with snow where you need to change the wheel every spring and winter.

You change tires, not the whole wheels between seasons.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#167

Post by doctor_eval »

nly wrote: post #117
jacquesm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Toyota isn't large enough to influence the market like that, they will have to cave sooner or later if they want to stay in business.

Toyota are the largest car manufacturer in the world...

Largest car manufacturer seems to flip between Toyota and VW, but while Toyota is certainly in the top 2, it’s also far less than ½ the market.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#168

Post by arethuza »

zuhsetaqi wrote: post #144
judge2020 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically all of those are covered under "otherwise has drawbacks they've judged significant", but I think they meant "in the realm of EV performance": the Plaid is still the fastest car you can buy without dropping a half million on a SF90 or even more on a limited-run supercar.

It's the fastest in acceleration. Bring it to the Nürburgring and it's by far not the fastest car. Even the Porsche Taycan Turbo S is more than 2 seconds faster[0]. Driving quality or how good a car is is not defined by how fast a car can accelerate. [0] https://www.nuerburgring.de/info/nuerburgring/records

I was surprised by just how much faster the fastest ICE cars are than the fastest electric cars - about 50s faster?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#169

Post by tremon »

missjellyfish wrote: post #90
it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

> Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status. So, a bus?

No, a taxi.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#170

Post by tremon »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #26
it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

> I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Are you also secretly rooting for yummy foods to uncool while bland foods take their place?

Bland, generic foods have already taken the place of many yummy foods.
Post reply on HN