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Why aren't smart people happier?

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Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#161
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was expecting the OP to say that smarter people were less likely to be happy, because that is the sense a lot of us who believe ourselves to be "smart" have. But that's not what OP is about, and it suggests that's not really what the research says either, there's maybe a bit of hint of a small negative correlation like that, but mostly it says: no correlation. Rather than making the argument you are making, which I…

Weird, I thought smart people are those who are good at solving poorly defined problems.

Have you read the OP?

It's less about making an argument for the "correct" definition of "smart"; and more about saying that the way psychologists measure "intelligence" (eg when trying to study things like "are smarter people more or less happy") is measuring success at solving well-defined problems. That things like IQ tests as well as academic success are about solving well-defined problems.

You can think "smart people" are whatever you want, it's not about any "true" definition of what "smart" means, it's just a word that means different things to different people -- often probably not very rigorously defined or consistently applied. The OP is in fact about investigating what some of these different meanings may be with relevance to correlation to happiness.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#162
post #98
post #34

I'm not especially smart, or happy, but, personally, I don't know how to be it, or what it feels like. I know pleasure, but being in a constant pleasurable state is not what is meant by happiness as far as I know. Slavoj Žižek (someone who does seem to be especially smart): “Happiness was never important. The problem is that we don't know what we really want. What makes us happy is not to get what we want. But to dre…

Pleasure is not the right goal. Homeostasis, balance, equanimity, peace are much better. Learn to appreciate beauty. Learn to create beauty. Learn how to get better at both.

Appreciating and creating beauty isn't contingent on peace. Often art comes from a place of passion. I think freedom from emotional turmoil in the general sense would be enjoyed by everyone, I can agree in that capacity. However, that list of synonyms is rather ambiguous and to me elicits an imperative for impassivity, antithetical to striving towards anything. I guess it's a valid path if that suits your nature, but I'm getting more out of the human experience by evoking passions.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#163
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get to know your bosses. Like really get to know them. Mine have told me stories about how their wives left them because they made less than a million one year. Or how their kids are strung out on drugs beacuse they failed to be around them often enough growing up. When they have a conversation, 90% of the time it's about how many widgets the widget factory is going to pump out next month. Old friends come out of the…

"Christianity prohibited the coveting of your neighbor not because it would make God angry, but because it makes your life worse." Citation needed. It's one of the commandments: “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male slave, or his female slave, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” Exodus 20:17 (NASB). A book of magical thinkin…

Aristotle invented the logic that was encoded in the software you used to respond to my comment. He was also a racist. Do you cast your laptop into a lake?

Jefferson argued that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights", he also owned slaves. Do you argue that men are not equal?

Take the good parts, leave the bad. Like it or not Christ was one of the great moral philosophers. His surmon on the mount was revolutionary for it's time[0]. You can read it without believing in the magic, in the same way you can read the Tao Te Ching or Art of War while not being a Taoist or a general.

[0]if you aren't familiar check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3nN9-C1yKU

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#164
Most smart people are smart enough to know they're getting screwed, but they're not smart enough (or connected enough, or rich enough) to do anything about it.

"I'm getting hustled only knowing half the game." "Fat Cats, Bigga Fish" by The Coup

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#165
post #34

I'm not especially smart, or happy, but, personally, I don't know how to be it, or what it feels like. I know pleasure, but being in a constant pleasurable state is not what is meant by happiness as far as I know. Slavoj Žižek (someone who does seem to be especially smart): “Happiness was never important. The problem is that we don't know what we really want. What makes us happy is not to get what we want. But to dre…

Happiness is not getting what you want. It is wanting what you get.

http://www.iambetterthanyourkids.com/images/inspirational/cd...

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#166
post #137
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Christianity prohibited the coveting of your neighbor not because it would make God angry, but because it makes your life worse." Citation needed. It's one of the commandments: “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male slave, or his female slave, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” Exodus 20:17 (NASB). A book of magical thinkin…

> You would be better served studying philosophy directly, rather than a book filled with misogyny, slavery, thought-crime and magic. Quite a hot take. Most famous philosophers lived in similar environments. I don't know how your environment precludes you from wisdom.

Which famous philosophers incorporated magical thinking, thought-crime, misogyny and slavery into their philosophy? What is the wisdom imparted by officially sanctioned chattel slavery, wherein beating your slave to death is perfectly acceptable [as] long as they live a few days after the beating: "And if someone strikes his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for the slave is his property." Exodus 21:20-21 (NASB)

-edited for typo.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#167
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was expecting the OP to say that smarter people were less likely to be happy, because that is the sense a lot of us who believe ourselves to be "smart" have. But that's not what OP is about, and it suggests that's not really what the research says either, there's maybe a bit of hint of a small negative correlation like that, but mostly it says: no correlation. Rather than making the argument you are making, which I…

Good points, and I would even go one step further and cast doubt on the notion that "dumb" people don't see the awful. That is not my experience at all.

> That is not my experience at all.

I think we have different experiences then. Or, maybe, your interpretation of 'seeing the awful' is different.

I see 'dumb' people fall for pyramid schemes/MLM which seem obvious to me. They will only see the awful after they've lost money. We both see it, but there's a period where they don't, while I do.

I see people fall for sales tactics and which are transparent to me. Getting a €400 discount on an €800 delivery package for a second hand car that has €150 in actual value, does not seem like a deal to me. Others are very happy and are happy the sales person gave them the fake discount.

When other people are happy that the government reduces taxes on gas due to rising prices, I see rising corporate profits that were paid for with public funding.

When some people get angry about the conspiracy they read on Facebook, I get angry about the manipulation going on that caused that conspiracy to spread.

In the end, in my experience, the 'dumb' people see awful more on the micro level, while I see it more on the macro level. That probably probably makes us just about as unhappy about the stuff that happens around us, just from completely different perspectives.

The only real difference I see, is that I seem to have a harder time finding people to discuss things with than the average person seems to. Where 'dumb people' just seem to be able to repeat talking points and opinions they've heard somewhere, I often prefer more in depth discussions and conversations on the why and how, causing me to be an outsider (sometimes).

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#169
My theory is that overall life happiness is a measure of your reality vs your potential.

If you're smart then you're probably in a field that has infinite opportunities and paths available. If you're not, you've probably landed in the niche that works nicely for you.

The former's potential is near infinite, the latter is pretty damn close to their endgame and happy to repeat till retirement.

Sidebar I dislike the term smart, I make no intentional judgements in this comment in regards to intelligence or lack of in comparison to career choice. I know plenty of people who have been called smart (including myself under protest) who are absolute doofuses outside of their field haha. Smart might as well just mean specialised in something that took more than 4 years to learn.

Even despite trying to be super delicate there.. actual smarts vs not smarts (normal definition) is probably similar. Smart folks have more potential to live up to.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#170

The crux of the article: > Spearman was right that people differ in their ability to solve well-defined problems. But he was wrong that well-defined problems are the only kind of problems. “Why can’t I find someone to spend my life with?” “Should I be a dentist or a dancer?” and “How do I get my child to stop crying?” are all important but poorly defined problems. “How can we all get along?” is not a multiple-choice…

That's wish-washing the answer where none is needed. I bet you smarter people are better at answering all of the questions you listed. Cursory search on IQ vs marital status confirms that.

> I bet you smarter people are better at answering all of the questions you listed.

The article has this paragraph that seems to contradict your position:

> This is exactly the situation we’re in with tests that claim to measure people’s “reasoning” and “problem-solving ability.” Christopher Langan, a guy who can score eye-popping numbers on IQ tests, believes that 9/11 was an inside job meant specifically to distract the public from his theories, and he claims that banks won’t give him a loan because he’s white. John Sununu supposedly has IQ of 176, but he still had to resign from being George H.W. Bush’s chief of staff because he flew to his dentist appointments using military jets. Bobby Fischer is one of the greatest chess players of all time, but he also claimed that Hitler was a good dude, the Holocaust didn’t happen, and "Jews murder Christian children for their blood and they’re doing it even today." Then there's the ever-lengthening list of professors at elite universities who have been disciplined or dismissed for doing things like sexually harassing colleagues and students or completely making up data or hanging out with a known pedophile. These are supposed to be some of the smartest people in the world, endowed with exceptional problem-solving abilities. And yet they’re still unable to solve basic but poorly defined problems like “maintain a basic grip on reality” and “be a good person” and “don't make any life-altering blunders.”

If "smarter people are better at answering" those sorts of questions, why do the allegedly smartest people in the world make such blatantly stupid decisions or hold such obviously wrong, easily proven wrong, beliefs?

> Cursory search on IQ vs marital status confirms that.

What does this mean? What was the result of your search? Did you find higher IQ people are more or often less married? Or more or less often divorced? Is it good to be married? Is it smart to get married? I don't understand.

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