Post-Apocalyptic Programming • Hacker News Board

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Programming

#161

Post by int_19h » Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 4:53 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #85

blamestross wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I only see people. I only see atoms dancing around. That doesn't make it a useful abstraction at the scale we are discussing. Government is just an abstraction over a group of people self organizing. > People feeling they have a right to use violence to achieve their goals, not so much. Agreed, but government monopoly on violence is the only system that seems to have stuck. I would prefer a system of anarchy where…

> Libertarian presumption that people, removed from the system of control, would all act better Libertarians don't believe anything resembling that. Libertarianism requires a government empowered to use force to guarantee peoples' fundamental rights. If you have more questions about what Libertarianism actually is, feel free to ask, as I am one.

You're a right libertarian, no? Something worth bearing in mind, because a left-libertarian answer to many questions - especially those pertaining to property rights - is likely to be fundamentally different.

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Programming

#162

Post by int_19h » Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 4:55 AM UTC

blamestross wrote: post #60

manofmanysmiles wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me a government, and I’ll believe you that it’s not a superstition. I only see people. People organizing and working together is great. People feeling they have a right to use violence to achieve their goals, not so much. Edit: https://xkcd.com/386/ I will take this opportunity to to try to express myself a bit more clearly. I don't really expect to convince anyone of anything, but rather I would like to reach t…

> I only see people. I only see atoms dancing around. That doesn't make it a useful abstraction at the scale we are discussing. Government is just an abstraction over a group of people self organizing. > People feeling they have a right to use violence to achieve their goals, not so much. Agreed, but government monopoly on violence is the only system that seems to have stuck. I would prefer a system of anarchy where…

Thing is, we are people. So the "people scale" is always going to be the most one relevant to us in terms of what governments do for / to us. The atom analogy doesn't hold here.

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Programming

#163

Post by int_19h » Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 4:56 AM UTC

blamestross wrote: post #71

manofmanysmiles wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Libertarian presumption that people, removed from the system of control, would all act better" My premise is more: "If people act better, and then perhaps we won't need a system of external control." I will admit I dream of a world that may not be possible. However, I will continue dreaming, and act to see this dream come to fruition.

The path to such a future will either be paved with mass extermination to lower to population to remove scarcity or via surviving with government until scarcity is defeated and government can be safely dismantled. I do agree that there is a root problem with any existing power structure not being truely incentivized to reduce scarcity and then loose power, but that doesn't make the thanos solution more ok.

It's not an either-on. We can still minimize etatism and other forms of organization that require deep hierarchies.

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Programming

#164

Post by int_19h » Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 4:57 AM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #45

luxuryballs wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whooosh you totally didn’t get the point, the government is also just a bunch of individuals.

The point that governments and money are superstitions and that people need to "grow emotionally and take responsibility" rather than believing in such things? No, I'm pretty sure I got the point there. I agree, government is just a bunch of individuals, and collectively we empower them to take action on our behalf, and they achieve things that without such cooperation would be hard to impossible. I don't believe the…

Do you seriously believe that you (even collectively) empower governments to take action of your behalf?

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Programming

#165

Post by edanm » Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 9:04 PM UTC

wokwokwok wrote: post #51

> what if you are the only survivor with some programming skills sitting in front of a computer you’ve never heard of, with some hex pad to enter machine codes, with maybe some pen and paper. What will you do? Leave it on the ground and forage around until I find a computer that runs windows. It's not great, but, it'll do. Failing that, a phone and a solar charger. Charming as it is to build yourself toys 'from scrat…

The intro is fairly humorous, the "post-apocalyptic" framing is really tongue in cheek, at least to my reading.

I think you're taking it far too literally, and analyzing a joke to death.

(E.g. a random other quote from the article: "I will be using C to keep the grim atmosphere of the apocalypse, but you may try this exercise in a different language, of course." This is not a serious "what to do in case of apocalypse" thing.)