Live data from Hacker News

The case for bad coffee (2015)

seriouseats.com

161–170 of 631 posts

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#161

I’ve gone through several coffee phases, some bordering on extreme — extremely sensitive weighing, timing, $2,000 grinders, $10k espresso machine, etc. My happy medium is just doing basic pour overs, but with really good locally roasted coffee. To me, this is the cheapest and best approach. In fact, even if pour overs require too much work (weighing, timing), then just do drip. But do it with quality coffee. Quality…

I second this approach. I buy locally roasted beans, and have a reasonably nice grinder and an aeropress. For my palette, the coffee's as good as I can get anywhere.

Your comment makes me smile. I've been experimenting with my morning coffee since the percolator was considered state of the art. I've probably got enough different coffee making paraphanalia in the attic to start my own museum.

And what I've finally settled on are locally roasted beans (generic Columbian), a good grinder and an aeropress.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#162
post #142

Well put: the author's "ode to bad coffee" makes the point that high-end coffee is to brag about whereas most valuable personal memories tend to be connected with _low-end_ coffee; part of what makes one value low-end coffee more highly than high-end are indeed these personal memories associated with it (e.g. finishing one's dad's leftover coffee from his cup in the morning).

You can make this argument for a lot of things. Some of my best childhood memories are attached to "garbage" rap/hiphop/pop/rock songs of my youth. Sure, it's not complex and was produced by a focus group, but it reminds me of comfort and my family.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#163
I think the best thing about the artisanal foods movement is allowing the emergence of a huge number of small businesses that aren’t centered around knowledge work. It’s no long only megacorps owners that make huge profits off eat we eat (I learned this week that the Mars company that produces mass market confections is a $40bn annual revenue private company)

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t directed at you/OP, but the anti dark roast thing seems to me to be a distinctively American coffee snob hipster thing. Many places in the world have wonderful dark roast coffee. Honestly, are these people just wandering around Austria, Italy, Vietnam, Cuba, or Turkey complaining about bad the coffee is? Give me a break.

I think this is the same principle as pretty much everything. Variety is almost always sought after, and then within that variety specific characteristics are cherished. I think the "anti dark roast" thing is "anti uniformity". The darker the roast, the closer every bean gets to tasting exactly the same. For example, why do people dump on pop music and think of jazz as "real music"?

> For example, why do people dump on pop music and think of jazz as "real music"?

Because jazz+jazz=jazz

https://youtu.be/GAbg8X9-uBI

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m similar, but I would describe it as “I’ve never had a cup of coffee I could distinguish from any other cup of coffee.” They all taste more or less the same to me. Maybe there are minor differences but if I’m not intentionally trying one cup right after a different one, I’m not going to notice. It all tastes like “coffee” to me. (I drink it hot and black. I can’t stand the taste of any coffee if it’s just warm.)

Find a good coffee shop and try some different pour over brews. Ask if they have some natural (or dry) process beans and I bet you'll get a cup of coffee like you haven't really tasted before. Natural process beans are super fruity and almost taste like a tea. Also ask if they have some good robusta beans and try that too, again it might be familiar but much different than what you've had before (robusta is what Folg…

I mean, I hear what you and others are saying in the responses. I’m sure there’s coffees out there that, if I tried them, I’d admit were different, and likely better, than what I’m having now.

But I’d be worse off overall in that world, because then I’d go from enjoying cheap coffee, to hating cheap coffee and only enjoying “good” (read: expensive and/or time consuming) coffee. Folks would say “try this coffee, you’ll never go back to Folgers”, and you know what? They may be right! But why would I be better off? I’m already happy. I already enjoy my coffee.

Always trying to pursue finer and finer things leads you to a hedonic treadmill that’s hard to escape. It’s a trite and cliche Sheryl Crow lyric, but it’s absolutely true: It’s not getting what you want, it’s wanting what you got.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#166

This was a really beautiful post. As for coffee, like many other parts of life (movies, food, and music especially), I find that I like it very good or very bad—as long as it’s not down the middle, I can find a time/place to enjoy it. I have a fairly expensive Rocket Espresso machine, I’ve learned some latte art. I have every coffee making contraption out there. And I enjoy all of it, at times. When I’m in a hurry I’…

I'm in the same boat as you. I have a rolly-cart that I break out every day with all my coffee gadgets, but something about my local 7-11 coffee makes me go there at least once a week. They actually have solid coffee compared to all the other 7-11s around me, but it's also the short drive and talking to the nice owner that remembers me.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#167
Similar experience. I worked in Europe, Switzerland and then Italy, and got hooked on great cappuccinos and espressos. In fact, I didn't drink coffee of any form before I moved to Geneva. But when I came back to the states, after a brief habit of overpaying for bad cappuccinos, I switched to drip American. There was a guy in North Beach who had a following who could fix a legit cappuccino but it was a lot of trouble. It's just not worth it. Even espressos, a much simpler drink to make, isn't really worth it.

Along the lines of the article, I'll even offer that bad coffee can be more memorable.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly did not read the article lol. His point was really not about money at all. It was a piece about slowing down, fussing less, and just appreciating moments with people over things like roasting dates and quality of beans. That said, have any good coffee recommendations?

My point still stands. Doing a pour over or drip is low fuss. You could argue grinding your own beans isn’t low fuss, but most grinders have a preset with a hopper, so it’s still pretty quick and easy to grind your own beans. As for recommendations, I always say go local, and make sure it’s been roasted recently. As for what’s near me (Portland OR) I have quiet a few — Case Study, Coava, Heart, and Never are my curre…

Yeah less fuss is the thing. Get some decent enough beans, and use a simple process to make the coffee. I found a little while ago that I enjoy the taste of the batch brew at the local coffee shop more than their espresso long black. I bought their pre-ground beans and a plunger and now I basically get the same thing except it's 1.50 per cup instead of 5 dollars and I find making a plunger means it's easier to share with other people.

I just store the bag of beans inside the plunger and the entire setup fits inside my backpack if I want to, just add hot water.

(currency not in NZD not USD)

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#169
Fast, good, cheap. Pick two. Applies to everything.

Let's break down this specific context (food and drink), because I think it's interesting.

Good generally refers to quality (quality of the beans, quality of the machine, skill of the maker, etc), but what this article touches on is that good can also mean 'nostalgic' or 'evocative'. They're different kinds of good, perhaps more psychological kinds, but our perceptions of taste are functions of our brain anyway. Good can also mean 'what I grew up with' or 'what I'm used to'. Similar to nostalgia, but worth breaking out because temporally it's what you used to like, and you still like it, instead of merely harkening back to simpler times occasionally.

In terms of fast, usually we think of the coffee at the corner store that's always ready, or instant. But there's also an element of great food where you need to spend time understanding what you enjoy, and this is something that rarely comes quickly. In this thread there are many people saying they don't enjoy acidic coffee, and equating this with not enjoying specialty coffee. Spending lots of time understanding roast levels and finding a specialty roaster with less acidic coffee is something that would take lots of time and understanding. Wine and beer are similar, people who claim to hate either can generally be convinced that there is some style of wine or beer that they like if you take some time to understand what other foods and drinks they like and pick something that matches. But this takes time and expertise, and it would take even longer for the person to discover on their own.

Cost is similar to speed. Developing your palate, trying lots of different coffees, buying all of the equipment, it's all expensive.

"bad coffee" magically hits all three: good, fast and cheap. But the good is the nostalgia/evocation/what you're used to, and well since you didn't pick quality you can have good, fast and cheap.

It is perfect, to some people. But for me, who has no strong nostalgic association with "bad coffee", and who enjoys food and drink and deep-diving and learning, picking good and fast (in the case of espresso) is a better choice for me.

If I can end my post on a slightly inflammatory note: my goal in writing this is to make sure that people realise that loving low quality things when they can afford and have the time for higher quality things is on some level blissful ignorance. There's nothing inherently great about the low quality product, there are just other choices and tradeoffs you're making, which low the appeal of higher quality products (time and cost investment in exploring them) and raise the appeal of the bad quality product (nostalgia).

If you're fine with this (and there's no reason not to be), then enjoy!

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#170
post #57
post #46

Good grief. If you enjoy it then by definition it is not bad, it is good, even if it didn't cost you an arm and a leg and you got it at the grocery store or the diner. The coffee snobs can just go fuck themselves. I had two life experiences that beat the culinary snobbery out of me. Many years ago I was a tea-totaller but I decided I wanted to develop a taste for wine (because social pressure) so I started a wine tas…

What Keurig did you end up buying?

I don't remember what it was called, and apparently it isn't made any more. It was a low-end model without any fancy features. I got one for my wife and me as well, but my daily brew comes from one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-DCC-450BK-Coffeemaker-Stain...

I like Seattle's Best Post Alley blend or Starbucks Cafe Verona. But I drank Folgers at work for years and was perfectly happy with it.

Post reply on HN