Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

spiegel.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 423 posts

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#161

Post by theplumber »

raverbashing wrote: post #75
olivermarks wrote: post #33

https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactor... I'm on the fence about an all electric future- we simply don't have the grid capacity in most parts of the world - but the Germans and French who control the EU should have been developing SMNR years ago. They are now in an energy checkmate situation with a hostile country with an economy the size of Italy. Not clever,

France is looking into small reactors it seems But has RR actually shipped one of these?

I believe NuScale is leading the way

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#162

Post by jblich »

ibeckermayer wrote: post #42

Related content "Trump: Germany 'Totally Controlled By Russia'" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LLZBVTid4I German bureaucrats laugh at Trump after he says the country could become totally dependent on Russian energy: https://twitter.com/marcusgilmer/status/1044604107997237249

Really, they were told by Obama in 2014 w/ crimea https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-eu-summit/obama-tells...

Trump no erudite

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#163

Post by rlpb »

shafyy wrote: post #16
hash07e wrote: post #5

Errr... How about turn on those Nuclear plants?

Natural gas cannot be replaced by nuclear energy (or any other source of electricity) for many applications, at least not in the short term. For example here in Germany, many homes use gas boilers (heaters) for heating space and water. You would need to rebuild a lot of infrastructure to use electricity (which Germany plans to do, but obviously this will take years if not decades).

My understanding is that a significant amount of natural gas is being used for electricity generation. Generate that electricity from another source, and more gas will immediately become available for direct heating.

Of course we don't have the capacity to do that today, and that's the problem.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#164

Post by Comevius »

88840-8855 wrote: post #28
toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Constraint is a forcing function for ingenuity." Renewables are going to ramp, floating LNG import terminals are already en route (to add capacity to the existing 24 in EU countries), and industrial processes requiring LNG will make due with less or seek alternatives. Europe will place a small number of coal plants on temporary standby, and they will only add 1.3% to EU emissions annually, even in the worst-case sce…

How will renewables help this winter? All the stuff you describe are need at least 2 years. At least. Plus, they are expensive. Energy will come with a huge premium in Europe. This is the time that Putin needs to build the pipelines to other countries. Let us not forget that NOBODY is against the war: not a single South American, not any African country, not China, not India. This is a US/Canada/Europe/South Korea/Ja…

"I have Ukranian roots"

This must be the I'm not racist, I have black friends equivalent of supporting a fascist regime and calling for it to finish off a country with 44 million people. Given Russia's past and current scorched-earth policy this would be a genocide, if it's not already is.

Even if Russia finishes off Ukraine it would not go back to business as usual, they would still hold the rest of the world hostage with nuclear weapons, and a few years later they would just invade another country. They must be stopped, and stopped now.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#165

Post by parkingrift »

jlangenauer wrote: post #71
throwawaysleep wrote: post #10

Given that Germany ignored decades of warnings about this, let them take the brunt of the cuts.

There are so many people who want to see ordinary Germans suffer for decisions their government made. Do you think the pensioners who will freeze are the ones who decided on energy policy?

>Do you think the pensioners who will freeze are the ones who decided on energy policy?

Yes. Yes, I do. They consistently voted for this future, and now they’ve got it.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#166

Post by nawitus »

Gravityloss wrote: post #23

Unfortunately Brunsbüttel terminal only finally got the go ahead in January 2022 and it will take 3.5 years to build. It's anyway a good alternative source. https://www.gem.wiki/Brunsb%C3%BCttel_LNG_Terminal Increasing insulation and installing and building more heat pumps are obvious ways to save on gas. Italy used some big EU subsidies to pay 100% of people's home and house renovations. Would something like that be…

Apparently heat pumps are sold out and all the workers who are able to install them are booked up for the year. It's a bit late for drastic improvement there.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#167

Post by kmlx »

nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

not sure if my bills are too low or yours are too high.

i live in a large flat in London with my partner. fully electric, no gas, but the building was awarded for being ultra efficient.

i used to pay £60/month for the electricity in summer and £100/month in winter. now it’s £80 during summer. winter heating involves shorts and tshirt. usual amenities: large oled, dishwasher every day, washing machine every other day etc etc

> There is no alternative anyway - Russia is a fascist totalitarian state that declared war against Europe and is using gas a weapon.

sure, but inflation reached historical highs before the war even started:

https://www.ft.com/content/088d3368-bb8b-4ff3-9df7-a7680d4d8...

luckily for the today’s politicians, Russia invaded Ukraine, so now they can point to Putin instead of analysing what they did wrong (spoiler: we actually know what they did wrong).

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#168

Post by antisthenes »

nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

> just a small 2 person flat in a small town

> 1600€/year

Something really doesn't add up here. If your bill is so high, why haven't you done anything to mitigate it? Can you add insulation?

What's the temperature kept at in the heating months? How much would lowering it lower the costs? Is there a possibility of putting solar collectors on the rooftop and heating with hot water? Even in winter they can get water up to 35-40 Celsius, which is considerably higher than comfort temperature.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#169

Post by yrgulation »

prostoalex wrote: post #96
Spooky23 wrote: post #20

The whole Ukraine/Russia conflict underscores how poor the strategic position of Europe and the US is with respect to Europe. We’ve been phoning it in since the Clinton era and assuming that “norms” and oligarchs would keep Russia at bay. End of the day they got tanks, nukes and are learning what they can get away with.

If only somebody foresaw this https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-eu-summit-idUSBREA2P0... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/trump-scolded-germany-for...

Ah yes about trump. I distinctly remember people rightfully laughing at him for his “clean coal” statements. Guess what country in europe relies heavily on “clean coal”?

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#170

Post by dntrkv »

olivermarks wrote: post #33

https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactor... I'm on the fence about an all electric future- we simply don't have the grid capacity in most parts of the world - but the Germans and French who control the EU should have been developing SMNR years ago. They are now in an energy checkmate situation with a hostile country with an economy the size of Italy. Not clever,

If we wait for our grid capacity to improve before we transition, we'll be waiting for decades to come.

We need to quickly transition now to force the government to fund improved transmission and supply. Our governments aren't great at building things for future needs, but when your citizens are in danger of going without electricity, you bet your ass these politicians will do what needs to be done.

As an example, look at the mRNA vaccine development.

Post reply on HN