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“The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

grumpygamer.com

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Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#161

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

pessimizer wrote: post #151
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #66

It's not just gamers. The Internet has spawned a culture of "no consequences for letting your Id come out to play." If I walk up to Big Bad John, and call him a rude name, he will knock my teeth out. That's called "immediate negative feedback." Consequence immediately follows action. On the Internet (although this kind of thing predates the Internet. The Internet just commoditized it), this negative feedback loop is…

> If I walk up to Big Bad John, and call him a rude name, he will knock my teeth out. Big Bad John is a strawman, because if Big Bad John was abusing his children or beating his wife, I wouldn't confront him either. I'd call the police. It doesn't reflect at all the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the criticism. Also, we should probably get over that pretense that anonymity ends brutal criticism. Plenty of people are h…

> Big Bad John is a strawman, because if Big Bad John was abusing his children or beating his wife, I wouldn't confront him either. I'd call the police. It doesn't reflect at all the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the criticism. Also, we should probably get over that pretense that anonymity ends brutal criticism. Plenty of people are happy to sign pretty brutal criticism, or even to make a brand out of it. The thing that it's easy to do is to attack "haters" or "cynics" because they don't really exist. They're what happens when people define other people's motivations by the effect on them personally. Somebody hates me? They're a "hater." Somebody says that something I think will work will definitely not work? They're a "cynic" that doesn't believe anything can improve and hate people who have retained the ability to dream. The same people leaving comments on this game encouraging the designers to kill themselves will agree completely with this reasoning, because it has very little content.

So ... besides telling me what's wrong with what I said, I don't see much positive stuff, there, so I assume that what I said is completely worthless, since I was basically saying "I've tried negative, so now, I try positive." I didn't even phrase it in a way that tells others to do it (I've learned to avoid "you" a lot).

That's OK. I'll keep doing it, anyway. I'm stupid, that way.

BTW: I know a whole bunch of folks, IRL, that have ... let's say ... a checkered past ... Probably not ones I'd want to walk up and insult, but hey, if that's what you want to do, for kicks, knock yourself out. Nah ... scratch that. It will likely be done for you (but maybe not. Their "checkers" are in the past. That's kind of the point of it all) ...

It's been a great help, in managing my mouth (and Lord knows, I need all the help I can get, in that department).

If you are US-based, have a great long weekend. Dogs hate this weekend.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#162

Post by novok »

dgb23 wrote: post #86
vasco wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most hours gamed are by kids, of course they're gonna be nasty, have you ever seen an unsupervised kid without threat of physical violence for being shitty to other kids? The fact that people care about an insult or attack in a comment section of a random site they read about a game is what surprises me. What lives some people must live for this to be something that even registers as an annoyance.

I don't think most of these types of comments come from kids. "Entitled gamer culture" seems to be similar to any kind of culture around fandom, escapism, entertainment and sports. Some people just love to obsess about things and take their opinions super seriously, especially if they don't know what they are talking about.

I actually do think the reason why gamers tend to be nastier as a group comes from them having a large group of children and teenagers. The vast majority of a group are lurkers, so you only need a small percentage of vocal jerks to make it worse. I bet most of the jerks and trolls in the gaming world probably skew younger vs. total gamer population.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#163

Post by nineplay »

> whatever you do dont make it a leftist multiculti gender bs

I see this as exhibit #1 "why we need diversity". Let us hope to see a day when it will be so common for a game to have characters in any variety of races, cultures, and genders that no one would call it leftist bs.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#164

Post by ElijahLynn »

Verifying that we are talking to real, authentic humans is going to be crucial for the future of the internet. Maybe not "real name" policy but let's answer the question, "How do I know I am having a conversation that is as authentic as meeting someone on the sidewalk?".

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#165

Post by AlbertCory »

belfalas wrote: post #143
munificent wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the main reasons I was happy to leave the game industry after eight years of doing it. Working incredibly hard to build a product served to a group of people that are often hurtful emotionally stunted man-children is just a deeply demoralizing experience. Obviously, many gamers aren't like that. But a fucking whole lot of them are, and they are extremely vocal, and it doesn't take many of them to suck…

> Imagine a bar where every time you walked in the door a half dozen dudes invariably turned around on their barstools and told you your clothes look like shit, your face is disgusting, you hair style is stupid, you smell like trash and, you should just fucking kill yourself now. How often would you want to go there? Replace the word 'bar' with 'school' and this sounds like a write-up of my much of my pre-university…

Indeed, my life began the morning after I graduated high school. The only people from then whom I'm not in touch with but would like to be, have unsearchable common names and don't sign up for those class reunion websites.

(I know, I know, I could find them with more effort. But really, why bother?)

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#166

Post by throwaway2048 »

zac23or wrote: post #147
throwaway2048 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does dropbox have to do with "open source communities"

Some open source communities are worse than gamers in some cases.

Dropbox has nothing to do with open source communities, nor is HN an open source community.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#167

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

The average internet commenter is careless and dumb. I've definitely made comments which I've later regretted, after realizing that the author would actually end up reading them. Often times comments are based on gut reactions which are given after barely taking any time to consider the art. Having a bad day and didn't enjoy the media quite that much, so you're a bit too mean and careless in your comments. It's easy to forget that there are real humans behind each creation.

As creators, it's probably healthiest to avoid comments entirely and have someone filter the feedback for you. It only takes a few inconsiderate assholes to make the creator feel terrible.

I recently experienced a lite version of this, where I posted what I considered to be constructive feedback on how to make a game community better. Immediately I was insulted, criticized, and downvoted. After the initial few comments I realized there would be no intelligent responses and I just stopped reading. Despite my intellectual awareness of this, having some kind of emotional reaction to the severely negative comments was unavoidable. It also means that going forward I'm less likely to engage with the community through that medium.

The game for which I have the largest number of criticisms and complaints is also my favorite. When you spend multiple thousands of hours playing a game, you'll acutely feel each minor bug, issue, and problem. The list of compliments and praises is just as long, as it's the most fun and entertaining game I've ever played.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#168

Post by bena »

adamrezich wrote: post #104
CommieBobDole wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, your argument is "The art is terrible and he must have known it was terrible and possibly made it terrible intentionally for some sort of complex culture-war publicity reason because the only other possibility is that he's actually offended by people telling him he's a terrible person and and idiot and a moron and only capable of producing absolute garbage because no person today would be offended by that because…

the first four words of your attempted paraphrase of my post, or anything like them, do not exist in my post in any form. while reading my post you hallucinated that I was "one of them" and disapproved of the game's art style. to clarify: I don't have any strong opinions about the art style of Return to Monkey Island, and while I have some thoughts about it, that entire line of discussion is uninteresting to me. I se…

So what I did is look up all the Monkey Island games. There are essentially 7. The Secret of, LeChuck's Revenge, The Curse of, Escape from, Tales of, and Special Editions of The Secret of and LeChuck's Revenge.

And I went look up screenshots of every game.

Consistency does not exist. The Secret of and LeChuck's Revenge are pretty similar, The Curse of looks very Dragon's Lair-esque/Don Bluthy, Escape from looks kind of ass to be honest. It's very "early 3D" and did not age well. Tales of is also 3D and is ok-ish. The remakes are also 3D, but also different from both Escape and Tales of.

And the character design of Guywood changes from the first two, to the third, to the fourth to the sidestory, to the Special Editions.

So any argument based on "consistency" is a red herring for something else. Consistency has not been a hallmark of this series, graphics-wise. This series has more departures than LAX.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#169

Post by WorldMaker »

Tarsul wrote: post #124
generalk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"continue to blame the customer?" He's never said that folks were wrong, or blamed anyone for anything. Seems to me like he just wanted folks to not be shitty. Take, for example, this comment by someone calling themselves _Proud Retro Fascist_: > Nice attempt at silencing critics. The game will fail because it is > objectively hideous and you will only have yourself to blame. > > Inthe end all you will have achieved…

Yeah, that's a very harsh comment. Nonetheless, there is something to be learnt here: If anything, the comments of the fans show that this artstyle alienates many of the fans. So, if for example the artstyle would've been showed at the very start of the development, then the developers could've listened to the fans and changed it. But everyone's in a tough spot now because development is nearly finished (game is plan…

The lead artist of Return to Monkey Island worked for Double Fine previously, so it shouldn't be a surprise that if you didn't like art style that Double Fine made a "house style" you likely wouldn't be interested in what an alumni of that art style is trying to innovate at a follow up studio.

> If anything, the comments of the fans show that this artstyle alienates many of the fans.

Vocal fans are a sampling bias. Don't forget that volume in terms of loudness of complaint does not equal volume in terms of number of complainers. It may not be that "many" fans in number just because they have been that loud/obnoxious.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#170

Post by WorldMaker »

headelf wrote: post #115
chomp wrote: post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

The website is literally called 'grumpy gamer' so I'm not sure what the expectation was here

To be fair, some of this is indeed "crankiness returned" given how much of the vitriol seems almost directly based on Ron's older "If I..." written on a grumpy day post. Though I still wouldn't wish a 100x or 1000x return on grumpiness to anyone, and that seems to be the case here.
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