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Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

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Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#161

Post by occz »

elboru wrote: post #157
occz wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For how long would cars really be practical in a "down in the bunker"-scenario, though? There wouldn't be any more fuel produced, probably, and cars require a fairly high standard of roads which also would be lost after not too long. Personally, I would probably bring the equivalent book on bicycles, which I speculate would be the vehicle of choice for the end of the world. If anyone knows the name of such a book, I…

The idea is not to build a car just after you are out of the bunker. But it seems like this book would be helpful for a ton of useful things: > thorough text covering not just cars, but their constituent parts--and their constituent parts' constituent parts--all the way down to the materials. It has wonderful tables of data on the properties of various materials (from advanced plastics and alloys to leather, paper, a…

The materials-part could probably be useful, but still, the utility of cars in a world where neither their infrastructure could be maintained nor their fuel produced is highly questionable. Bicycles are far less vulnerable, in my opinion.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#162

Post by XorNot »

bobthepanda wrote: post #144
throwawayarnty wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this handbook still relevant in modern cars? I feel the new cars have so many hidden panels and electronics that you’re not expected to fiddle with the insides.

in a post-apocalyptic world, building an outdated suboptimal car is still better than not having the car at all. I really wonder how practical this is though. The bicycle, for example, dates back to da Vinci, but we only became good enough at manufacturing to make the precise parts needed by the 19th century. having the diagrams is all well and good but we will also have lost the means of manufacturing reliably and t…

Knowledge goes a long way though: i.e. knowing the 3-plate method for producing perfectly flat surfaces (most easily done with cast iron) gets you bootstrapped on making accurate tools, as does knowledge of how to build a lathe and what processes it is capable of.

All of which benefits from any type of work producing engine, since the core leap you need to make is to get away from being solely dependent on human labour as a power source.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#163

Post by kortilla »

occz wrote: post #161
elboru wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is not to build a car just after you are out of the bunker. But it seems like this book would be helpful for a ton of useful things: > thorough text covering not just cars, but their constituent parts--and their constituent parts' constituent parts--all the way down to the materials. It has wonderful tables of data on the properties of various materials (from advanced plastics and alloys to leather, paper, a…

The materials-part could probably be useful, but still, the utility of cars in a world where neither their infrastructure could be maintained nor their fuel produced is highly questionable. Bicycles are far less vulnerable, in my opinion.

You’re really getting hung up on the “car” part of it and not the “constituent parts”. This book would have everything required to build a bicycle.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#164

Post by nostrademons »

occz wrote: post #154
gavmor wrote: post #9

If I were to take one book with me "down into the bunker," as Dartnell puts it, I'd hands-down take with me the Bosch Automotive Handbook[0], a phenomenally dense and thorough text covering not just cars, but their constituent parts--and their constituent parts' constituent parts--all the way down to the materials. It has wonderful tables of data on the properties of various materials (from advanced plastics and allo…

For how long would cars really be practical in a "down in the bunker"-scenario, though? There wouldn't be any more fuel produced, probably, and cars require a fairly high standard of roads which also would be lost after not too long. Personally, I would probably bring the equivalent book on bicycles, which I speculate would be the vehicle of choice for the end of the world. If anyone knows the name of such a book, I…

Just looking through the table of contents [1] - this is not just for cars. It's basically a textbook on mechanical engineering, applied to something that will be common and very scavengable in a post-apocalyptic world. The first 159 pages is basically a quick-reference for applied physics; the next 50 pages is mathematics; the next 100 pages is material science. They don't get to anything car-specific until page 460.

[1] https://www.sae.org/images/books/toc_pdfs/BOSCH10.pdf

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#166

Post by PostOnce »

gavmor wrote: post #9

If I were to take one book with me "down into the bunker," as Dartnell puts it, I'd hands-down take with me the Bosch Automotive Handbook[0], a phenomenally dense and thorough text covering not just cars, but their constituent parts--and their constituent parts' constituent parts--all the way down to the materials. It has wonderful tables of data on the properties of various materials (from advanced plastics and allo…

I know of a book that similarly impressed me, though I've not yet seen the one you refer to, although it won't be quite so deep:

The reprinted-under-many names book from Germany in the 70s? called variously:

"How Things Work", "The Way Things Work", and more

and published by Simon & Schuster, Paladin Press, and others

Searching for C Van Amerongen will bring it up, although I think it is by multiple authors.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=C%20Van%20Amerongen

I like it so much I have many copies of it both soft and hardcover.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#167

Post by nostrademons »

mdorazio wrote: post #136
bluefirebrand wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After an apocalypse, if you survive and society has collapsed, resources will be abundant. You will just have to strip materials from cars and buildings instead of digging them out of the ground.

Parent post is probably referring more to energy resources. Gas and diesel degrade fairly quickly and unless you live in the middle east, aren't just flowing out of the ground anymore. Solar + BEVs might be an option, but only if the apocalypse scenario didn't involve an EMP, otherwise you better know your way around diesel engines and making biodiesel + live close to a hydroelectric plant.

Hydro, wind, and solar-thermal power is 100% renewable and can be made with 19th-century technology once you've worked out how to build a dynamo. There are some geographic restrictions but one of those power sources should be available in most regions. Plus most of the population has died off in a post-apocalyptic world, so your generators don't need to be nearly as big.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#168

Post by eternityforest »

Why not literally stockpile the things needed to pick up mostly from where things left off?

Is anyone working on how one might build a scaled down version of current supply chains?

How small can a chip fab be, to be able to bootstrap another fab? Can you make drugs in fully automated shipping container sized labs?

Has anyone mapped out a full process from "Every very high tech facility destroyed" to a full technological society?

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#169

Post by nostrademons »

notahacker wrote: post #62
ethbr0 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing not to discount is that if we needed to rebuild civilization suddenly... a lot of us are going to be dead. And consequently, those surviving and rebuilding are going to have the residue of a civilization that supported many more people to work with. Cast iron might be relatively rare, but would it be relatively rare for 1/1000th as many of us?

And to a large extent, you skip the searching for raw materials to smelt cast iron to make a stove and go straight to searching collapsed buildings for cast iron stoves, or collecting railings to make a ladder etc...

Knowing how to repair and re-cast is still a useful skill, though. At some point the scavengeable items will have been scavenged and worn out, and if you want civilization to continue, you need to reboot it at a drastically lower level of complexity. That means building new production that can still be operated at the lower population levels of a post-apocalyptic world.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#170

Post by tetris11 »

eternityforest wrote: post #168

Why not literally stockpile the things needed to pick up mostly from where things left off? Is anyone working on how one might build a scaled down version of current supply chains? How small can a chip fab be, to be able to bootstrap another fab? Can you make drugs in fully automated shipping container sized labs? Has anyone mapped out a full process from "Every very high tech facility destroyed" to a full technologi…

The 3D printing revolution is close on the horizon. In my lab, we're already printing our own test-tube holders, lens cases, and much more. Initially this was due to the supply bottleneck during/after covid, but now its become a dependable, cheaper resource. One fewer firm to ship from. I'm of the belief that it's a trend. My SO tells me how her lab is currently experimenting in 3D printing their own drug capsules.

I'm of the hope that we develop this tech far enough such that survivors need to stumble only upon a printer to build what they need.

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