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Food security and the coming storm

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Re: Food security and the coming storm

#161

Post by ajsnigrutin »

sdoering wrote: post #4

I recently had a conversation with an organic farmer. While he is able to pass on at least some of his increased costs for energy and fuel through direct sales and cooperatively organized distribution channels, his conventionally farmed colleagues have a bigger problem. They have long-term purchase contracts that fix the prices for milk, meat or vegetables. In the case of milk and meat in particular, production costs…

I find two things funny... it might be a local thing (i'm from slovenia) but yeah...

1) gas was ~1.5eur here, then it fell to 1.0eur during the plague, and there were zero price drops beacause of that, and when the price started rising to 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 eur, everybody (farmers, retailers) started complaining about increasing gas prices and how that will result in higher consumer prices (even before we hit the price a year before that).

2) farmers complain about low prices they get from processors (and retailers).. then you want to buy meat directly from them, and their price is usually a lot higher than in-store price (even though there are usually two or more middle-men between them and the store), and you cannot choose anything... want steaks? Want beef thigh? Hah, good luck.. you can only buy 10, 20kg+ of "mixed beef", where 90% is "meat for goulash" (hard, cheap cuts) and 10% bones for soup. So yeah... it's Aldi for me.

Also, there were farmers complaining that they had a bunch of food that they had to throw away because of the plague (eg. contract with school, school closed, a few tons of salad had to be thrown out)... noone offered for people to come buy stuff directly from them at whatever cheap price,.. in the meantime in-store prices were relatively expensive for that same salad.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#162

Post by Throwawayaerlei »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #151
Throwawayaerlei wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You left out the part about turning to fascism." Why do you think people "turn to fascism" in the first place??

> Why do you think people "turn to fascism" in the first place?? Seems to me it is often a combination of dissatisfaction with some problems and a charismatic leader that promises an easy fix (if you only give him a lot of power and allow him to silence the opponents). Sometimes the original problem isn't fixed at all and may even increase, sometimes it is replaced by more serious problems. But at the beginning it se…

"Sometimes the problem can be relatively small, but the timing is unfortunate and it happens right before the election."

Ummm, can you provide one or more example of this? The "Two or three smaller problems appearing at the right moment can bring a disaster" sounds plausible but just one small one?

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#163

Post by fennecfoxen »

tomp wrote: post #124
guerrilla wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the last wave, only one country (Hungary) handled the problem sensible (building a wall, encouraging locals having more kids). You left out the part about turning to fascism. Anyway, none of what you mentioned helped immigrants nor resolved the reason for their immigration, so it seems more like the least sensible being that it was a complete failure. > The rest of the governments mostly pretended the problem do…

> You left out the part about turning to fascism "Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi." [1] In the real world, Orban was just reelected with overwhelming majority (increasing his vote share). He didn't contribute to the causes of said migration and didn't set out to solve the problem either, he just made sure his country and the people that elected him were minimally impacted. > We housed, clothed, fed and educated mi…

> solving these problems... where they happen (would also be much cheaper)

You assert that it's much cheaper to solve these problems without moving the people. It is not nearly so cut-and-dry.

When someone seeks to flee their homeland for Europe or America, it's generally because something is very wrong where they are coming from. Often, the problem includes some sort of kleptocratic, warmongering, authoritarian, or incompetent government. (Sometimes it is not strictly government — e.g. terrorism, cartels.)

It's often much easier to move people than reform institutions, and open migration worldwide would be a reform worth about $78 trilllllllllllllion. https://www.economist.com/the-world-if/2017/07/13/a-world-of...

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#164

Post by carlmr »

8note wrote: post #156
zdragnar wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the cleanup afterwards, which is often the most unpleasant part of actually cooking.

If you're cooking well, almost everything is clean by the time you put food on a plate. If you immediately put leftovers away, the cleaning can be 100% done by the time you start eating

Exactly, if you know how to cook you do the cleaning while cooking.

It helps keeping things simple, like having a rice cooker, then you only need to concentrate on one pan and cleaning.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#165

Post by lotusmars »

thriftwy wrote: post #108
enraged_camel wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Did Washington's illegal invasions of Iraq, Libya, or Syria shock global energy and food markets, leading to global crises? Not a good comparison in terms of food. Ukraine produces 6% of the world's wheat. Russia produces 17%. The former is unable to export its stockpiles due to the Black Sea blockade by the latter, and the latter is not going to be exporting what it produces because they recognize that they can u…

Russia and Ukraine got very little from being major food exporters. For Russia it meant that wheat profits are just a dent of oil&gas profits, and for Ukraine it meant perennial poverty and international aid seeking. Both were getting scolded for slacking economically. If both countries were to be compensated 'fairly' for the wheat, maybe there would be no war right now. Food prices may never 'recover' to those unsus…

> If both countries were to be compensated 'fairly' for the wheat, maybe there would be no war right now.

Wow. Now this is the Putin apologist take I've never heard before, and I've heard a lot of them watching Russian TV.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#166

Post by Viliam1234 »

guerrilla wrote: post #100
pphysch wrote: post #80

> Over the last three months, Russia's invasion of Ukraine has shocked agricultural markets Did Washington's illegal invasions of Iraq, Libya, or Syria shock global energy and food markets, leading to global crises? No, because a large part of the global economy did not attempt to cut off USA from the global economy following those blatant violations of sovereignty. This real lede is buried deep in the article. The f…

I tend to agree but I want to add some reasons. First is that it's clearly ineffective. As much propaganda as we hear, Russia's still getting what it wants. Russia pulled out of most of the country the day after Zelensky announced they might not go in NATO after all [1]. The south (which is strategic to Russia - see my other comment[2]) is theirs. The ruble is better than it was before the war even with lifted capita…

> As much propaganda as we hear, Russia's still getting what it wants. Russia pulled out of most of the country the day after Zelensky announced they might not go in NATO after all.

This is Russian propaganda.

First, NATO does not accept new members while they are in the middle of a military conflict. And Russia is occupying parts of Ukraine since 2014. So it's not like Zelensky's words changed something; he just commented on the obvious.

Second, nope, Russia absolutely didn't get what Putin wants. You may want to read his essay "On the historical units of Russians and Ukrainians". He wants the entire Ukraine to become a part of Russia.

In reality, the Russian army was near Kiev trying to capture it, failed, was pushed back. To save face, Putin now says that this is exactly what he wanted. Except, yesterday he said something different, and no doubt tomorrow he will say something different again.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#167

Post by fractallyte »

guerrilla wrote: post #76
code123456789 wrote: post #71

LOL. The article says that to fix the issue we need some international efforts and blah blah blah. Bullshit. All we need is to sink down russian ships in Black sea. Even better will be to help with the liberation of both Kherson and Crimea regions. Zaporizhzhya and Donbas can be liberated later, but Bastion rockets in Crimea endanger ports in Odesa and Yuzhne. This is the easiest way to provide food to emerging marke…

> All we need is to sink down russian ships in Black sea. Yeah, I'm sure nuclear war will be good for food pirces.

Nato could have marched in at the beginning, with the justification that Russian aggression in Ukraine was a security threat to Europe.

Russians only respect strength. The situation could have been escalated much further without tipping over into nuclear exchange. Nato failed, and now we have a multitude of security issues.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#168

Post by lotusmars »

guerrilla wrote: post #100
pphysch wrote: post #80

> Over the last three months, Russia's invasion of Ukraine has shocked agricultural markets Did Washington's illegal invasions of Iraq, Libya, or Syria shock global energy and food markets, leading to global crises? No, because a large part of the global economy did not attempt to cut off USA from the global economy following those blatant violations of sovereignty. This real lede is buried deep in the article. The f…

I tend to agree but I want to add some reasons. First is that it's clearly ineffective. As much propaganda as we hear, Russia's still getting what it wants. Russia pulled out of most of the country the day after Zelensky announced they might not go in NATO after all [1]. The south (which is strategic to Russia - see my other comment[2]) is theirs. The ruble is better than it was before the war even with lifted capita…

> Russia pulled out of most of the country the day after Zelensky announced they might not go in NATO after all

They didn't.

The only time they made a major retreat was when they overstretched and Kyiv offensive that was expected to be quick failed.

They've moved batallions to regroup for Donbas offensive leaving behind Bucha and other horrors.

No connection to anything related to NATO. If anything "NATO enlargement" rhethoric is just a coverup. Estonia is part of the NATO and it's bordering Russia with travel distance of 210 km to St. Petersburg.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#169

Post by roflyear »

sdoering wrote: post #4

I recently had a conversation with an organic farmer. While he is able to pass on at least some of his increased costs for energy and fuel through direct sales and cooperatively organized distribution channels, his conventionally farmed colleagues have a bigger problem. They have long-term purchase contracts that fix the prices for milk, meat or vegetables. In the case of milk and meat in particular, production costs…

This is how futures contracts are supposed to work. The times when these contracts made the farmers extra money at the expense of the consumer should make up for this time.

Re: Food security and the coming storm

#170

Post by adriand »

atmartins wrote: post #106
pharmakom wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time for me is by far the limiting factor. Short of a personal chef (too expensive) all the quick options are unhealthy. Edit: Loads of people suggesting cooking - I know how to cook, I just don’t have the time or energy. It’s not just preparation time but also the planning aspect. Meal prep delivery services suggestions are interesting. I have tried a few and found them expensive and low quality. Open to trying more…

Here me out: this sounds like an excuse. If you really want to solve it you could. I did. I use a wok to cook and it's faster than going to McDonalds. It's slower than a frozen meal but not by much. I don't aim for perfection, rather, most of my meals I try and make healthy. I still love bacon. In less than 10 minutes you can chop celery, broccoli, tofu, chicken, etc. If it takes longer then solve that problem: bette…

We lived for a couple weeks in Nicaragua and we hired the sister of the guy who maintained the property to cook for us (an optional service we were quick to agree to). On the first day she cooked a big batch of black beans in a pot. She left the pot on the stove, and would briefly bring to a boil each morning and night, which eliminated the need for refrigeration. With each successive day she’d throw in a few things like green peppers, garlic, etc, and the beans also gradually broke down so the flavour just got better and better. So easy, so nutritious, super convenient…we in the developed world have forgotten so many techniques like this, to our detriment.
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