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I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

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Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

#161

Post by jelled »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #137
jelled wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large companies definitely aren't immune from litigation over stuff like this. I sent Google a demand letter for breach of contract for wrongfully terminating my Adsense account. In the letter I gave them 30 days to restore my account and pay the money they had wrongfully withheld. On the 30th day the account was restored and the money was paid. Though I wrote the letter myself, I'd imagine anyone similarly situated…

Wow, great story. Please write a blog post about this and share on HN. It would be great to have template letters. Then people can fill, print, and post!

Regarding the template letter idea, I would advise anyone thinking of doing this to consult with an attorney. The facts and applicable law may be different in your situation and the letter will undoubtably carry more weight if it's backed the the threat of actual litigation.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

#162

Post by jrm4 »

ziddoap wrote: post #23
jrm4 wrote: post #7

Yup. Make Youtube a "common carrier" or something similar.

I would encourage anyone who thinks along these lines to read the following posts on Techdirt, which explain why this is not the solution people think it is. https://www.techdirt.com/2022/05/26/this-is-really-really-du... https://www.techdirt.com/2022/05/23/11th-circuit-disagrees-w... https://www.techdirt.com/2021/06/08/conservatives-want-commo... Something should be done to ward off the Kafkaesque future we are head…

I think I mostly agree on the particulars -- and yet I'd still like the argument to happen. Roughly, I think Google does something that is strongly within the spirit of that which we use common carrier for. So broadly, what I'm saying is that -- there's no real harm in trying this. Google is big and tough and has lawyers and they'll live. Let's get this argument out in the open and see where it goes.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

#163

Post by filoleg »

Jensson wrote: post #83
sshine wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just repeating the logic for my own OCD: Blackmail is when someone threatens to release your nudes unless you pay them. Extortion is when someone threatens to get you banned on YouTube unless you pay them. Maybe that's because of trolling, because they don't like your content, or simply because they can get paid.

But they threaten to send information to YouTube unless you pay them. That information will likely get you banned. They don't got the power to ban you, all they can do is reveal information about you.

Filing false copyright or "circumvention of technological measures" claims to youtube against your channel is not the same as "revealing information about you" at all.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

#164

Post by Animats »

anakaine wrote: post #151
jelled wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason given was "Our specialists have found that your account is related to an account that was disabled for violations of AdSense policies." Since it was impossible for there to be such a relation I argued that under the terms of service governing the Adsense program my account was at all times in good standing and that by withholding payment Google had breached the agreement.

How did you identify where to mail it to?

Nolo Press's guide to Small Claims court is useful for that.

What you need is the "address for service of process" for the company. You get that from state corporation records. California lookup is here.[1] "GOOGLE LLC (201727810678)" seems to be the main entry. Google uses Corporation Service Company, which is a company that exists to receive and forward legal paperwork, and has an office in every state to receive mail for that purpose. Some kinds of legal documents have to be served by a process server, and there are companies which do that for you, for a fee. You get a report back from the process server on the delivery.

(Some years ago, I sued a retailer, and the process server's return read "person in charge threw papers out front door". It didn't help them. I got a default judgement in small claims court against them. They refused to pay that. I paid for a "till tap and 8 hour keeper", which meant that armed sheriff's deputies went to the store and took the money to pay the judgement. If there wasn't enough money on hand, they'd stay there for a day, behind the counter, collecting any money that came in, and explaining to customers why they were doing that. I had to pay a deposit to the sheriff's office for that, but the cost of that was added to the judgement, so that ended up costing me nothing. This is why businesses rarely ignore lawsuits. Eventually, cops with guns show up.)

[1] https://bizfileonline.sos.ca.gov/search/business

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

#165

Post by samatman »

croes wrote: post #136
pessimizer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

succinct: Extortion is when someone threatens to hurt you by doing something like getting your account banned. Blackmail is when someone threatens to tell your secret. Blackmail is a specific type of extortion.

Blackmail is about publishing harmful information, this information doesn't have to true. If I threaten to tell your partner that you are cheating even if you don't, that is blackmail. If I threaten to tell your google that you are circumventing technological measures even if you don't, that is blackmail. Neither is physical injury, destruction of property, or an improper government action.

No, it is primarily about damaging reputation.

Threatening to call a SWAT team to someone's house if they don't pay you is extortion, not blackmail, even though you're providing 'information' to the police, it is to cause a physical threat, not to damage reputation.

The result here is destruction of income, not damage to reputation. It's extortion.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

#166

Post by heavyset_go »

coffeeblack wrote: post #28
heavyset_go wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been done as a trolling technique for ages.

That’s not trolling.

I'm using "trolling" as a word to describe the harassment self-described "trolls" often engage in. A purist definition of trolling seems to have morphed into shitposting, just general satire, leaving the /s out of posts, etc.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

#167

Post by safety1st »

duxup wrote: post #157
safety1st wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credible legal threats are arguably the MOST effective way to get a big corporation to do what you want, the main disadvantage being that the corporation will be disinclined towards doing business with you afterwards since they can no longer farm you passively for revenue. (If there is a long term relationship based on trust this will usually kill it forever.) There are many steps on the path to filing a lawsuit and…

I get how people have reasoned out that they think it works, has anyone done it?

Yes.

:)

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

#168

Post by croes »

samatman wrote: post #165
croes wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blackmail is about publishing harmful information, this information doesn't have to true. If I threaten to tell your partner that you are cheating even if you don't, that is blackmail. If I threaten to tell your google that you are circumventing technological measures even if you don't, that is blackmail. Neither is physical injury, destruction of property, or an improper government action.

No, it is primarily about damaging reputation. Threatening to call a SWAT team to someone's house if they don't pay you is extortion, not blackmail, even though you're providing 'information' to the police, it is to cause a physical threat, not to damage reputation. The result here is destruction of income, not damage to reputation. It's extortion.

Your example of calling a SWAT team is improper government action.

But if I tell your threaten you to tell your employer you are stealing from him it's blackmail. If you get fired it's destruction of income but still blackmail.

Or an example of former times. I threaten to tell your boss you are gay, you get fired if I do, also destruction of income.

It's not the result but the type of threat. Extortion requires some sort of physical force blackmail is verbal

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

#169

Post by samatman »

croes wrote: post #168
samatman wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is primarily about damaging reputation. Threatening to call a SWAT team to someone's house if they don't pay you is extortion, not blackmail, even though you're providing 'information' to the police, it is to cause a physical threat, not to damage reputation. The result here is destruction of income, not damage to reputation. It's extortion.

Your example of calling a SWAT team is improper government action. But if I tell your threaten you to tell your employer you are stealing from him it's blackmail. If you get fired it's destruction of income but still blackmail. Or an example of former times. I threaten to tell your boss you are gay, you get fired if I do, also destruction of income. It's not the result but the type of threat. Extortion requires some…

Since I maintain that the definition is harm to reputation, and you've given two examples which trivially involve harm to reputation, you haven't made your case.

Spurious copyright strikes are just an attack on income, no different from a DDOS, ransomware, or running up a bunch of spurious purchases, in anything but the mechanism (in this case providing fraudulent information). That's extortion.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next (2020)

#170

Post by anakaine »

Animats wrote: post #164
anakaine wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you identify where to mail it to?

Nolo Press's guide to Small Claims court is useful for that. What you need is the "address for service of process" for the company. You get that from state corporation records. California lookup is here.[1] "GOOGLE LLC (201727810678)" seems to be the main entry. Google uses Corporation Service Company, which is a company that exists to receive and forward legal paperwork, and has an office in every state to receive m…

That was an outstanding reply. Thank you!

Great work on the till and 8 hour keeper.

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