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A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

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Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#161

Post by guyzero »

cptskippy wrote: post #139
Ruq wrote: post #88

It sounds like a really bad idea to have all software "components" be resolved, downloaded, and executed from over the internet. Seems like a supply chain/waterhole attack just waiting to happen. Not to mention it would seem to sign away the devices ability to act autonomously or offline. Of course, with my views of Google, it seems very like them to design everything to constantly rely on them to even function. Corr…

This sounds like exactly the kind of enterprise OS running on Servers that Google wants for itself. Not something for consumer devices.

You'll be surprised of the first commercial deployment of Fuchsia then: https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/18/22630245/google-fuchsia-o...

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#162

Post by throwaway894345 »

Rusky wrote: post #155
throwaway894345 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are capabilities rotated periodically? Or how do you deal with leaked values?

It doesn't matter if the value is leaked, because it's meaningless to another process- like a file descriptor, it's just an entry in a table in the kernel, so it can only be used by the process it was granted to. (One process can request that the kernel transfer it to another process, which I guess you might be referring to? I'm not familiar with Fuchsia specifically here but generally speaking capability-based desig…

No, I just didn’t realize that it wasn’t useful to another process. I thought it was akin to a secret.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#163

Post by native_samples »

skavi wrote: post #127
native_samples wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's relevant because it reflects their priorities and how they view developers. The giant banners say this: although these are technical docs you may need to do your job, the most important thing you must see above all is an announcement of how morally pure we (think we) are. Once isn't enough. On our blog isn't enough. It must be the biggest and most eyecatching thing on literally every single page of our documenta…

You’re comment and a sibling both express that these messages are off-putting to international audiences? Why is that? BLM originated in the US, but black people definitely experience racism elsewhere. The movement is not necessarily US exclusive. I’ve seen plenty of tech companies with Ukraine banners on their websites, and have not seen a single criticism. Wouldn’t such banners exclude US developers under that logi…

"I’ve seen plenty of tech companies with Ukraine banners on their websites, and have not seen a single criticism"

The Ukraine banners are dumb. They have no place in technical docs. Like everyone else I want them to win their war, but spamming blue and yellow flags everywhere isn't going to help achieve that. Moreover the murky nature of their military alliances (Azov etc) makes it hardly a Disney movie-esque conflict with pure good and pure evil.

You see no complaints because why bother? The sort of people who do that never care if their actions are unpopular with other people, in fact they take a perverse joy in it.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#164

Post by kardianos »

vander_elst wrote: post #154

Disclaimer: I made some contributions to Fuchsia and I am clearly biased. I am not sure why there's so much negativity around Fuchsia. From a technical point of view it's finally a serious attempt to do something new in the OS space. It might not be the right and perfect answer, but it might introduce new paradigms and maybe some fork of the project might be able to provide additional benefits for end users down the…

I love so many ideas Fuchsia brings in. Blob storage as a primary FS type, software integrity, software archives that can naturally just pull blobs it requires from archives to name a few. A system that can as a first class, be atomically updated.

I'm concerned that it may not get real use or that Google might poison the well it dug.

But I would love to see it become a minimum viable desktop/embedded platform. But looking at CLs, sometimes the enemy of better/good is perfect.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#165

Post by [deleted] »

Ruq wrote: post #88

It sounds like a really bad idea to have all software "components" be resolved, downloaded, and executed from over the internet. Seems like a supply chain/waterhole attack just waiting to happen. Not to mention it would seem to sign away the devices ability to act autonomously or offline. Of course, with my views of Google, it seems very like them to design everything to constantly rely on them to even function. Corr…

[deleted]

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#166

Post by michaelbrave »

vander_elst wrote: post #154

Disclaimer: I made some contributions to Fuchsia and I am clearly biased. I am not sure why there's so much negativity around Fuchsia. From a technical point of view it's finally a serious attempt to do something new in the OS space. It might not be the right and perfect answer, but it might introduce new paradigms and maybe some fork of the project might be able to provide additional benefits for end users down the…

I just don't trust google to not abandon it like it has most other things they made that I invested in. It's brand erosion same as what's happened with Blizzard, used to have a lot of trust, lots of disappointments later and now I go in skeptical.

Personally I think Fuchsia is cool, and there is a lot to like, but I expect to hear it was killed by google anyday now.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#167

Post by qubex »

vander_elst wrote: post #154

Disclaimer: I made some contributions to Fuchsia and I am clearly biased. I am not sure why there's so much negativity around Fuchsia. From a technical point of view it's finally a serious attempt to do something new in the OS space. It might not be the right and perfect answer, but it might introduce new paradigms and maybe some fork of the project might be able to provide additional benefits for end users down the…

This may show my age, but Fuchsia smells like BeOS meets OS/400.

As to why there’s so much negativity: no clue. I quite appreciate the idea of a blank slate devoid of cruft.

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#168

Post by [deleted] »

vander_elst wrote: post #154

Disclaimer: I made some contributions to Fuchsia and I am clearly biased. I am not sure why there's so much negativity around Fuchsia. From a technical point of view it's finally a serious attempt to do something new in the OS space. It might not be the right and perfect answer, but it might introduce new paradigms and maybe some fork of the project might be able to provide additional benefits for end users down the…

[deleted]

Re: A Kernel Hacker Meets Fuchsia OS

#170

Post by qubex »

hosteur wrote: post #160
vander_elst wrote: post #154

Disclaimer: I made some contributions to Fuchsia and I am clearly biased. I am not sure why there's so much negativity around Fuchsia. From a technical point of view it's finally a serious attempt to do something new in the OS space. It might not be the right and perfect answer, but it might introduce new paradigms and maybe some fork of the project might be able to provide additional benefits for end users down the…

> I am not sure why there's so much negativity around Fuchsia. Easy: this is not the future we want. We don’t trust google. We don’t want an OS designed to further their goal of total control and surveillance capitalism.

It’s hilarious. I’ve been around long enough to remember people not trusting IBM and heralding Microsoft as the underdog with bright principles. Then it became Google being the white prince on a unicorn telling Micro$oft to eff off. For about a decade now we’re collectively in Not Trusting Google mode.

“It’s all just a little bit of history repeatin’.”

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