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Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

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Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#161

Post by FollowingTheDao »

rory wrote: post #134
Spooky23 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what are we going to do? California and Arizona wiped most of the US produce business off the map. Between the destruction of Ukraine, the western us droughts and the impending exhaustion of much of the Ogallala Aquifer, looks like many chickens are coming home to roost in the coming years.

The worst culprits (in terms of volume + heavy water usage) are almonds, pistachios, and walnuts. No one is going to starve because nuts become rare and expensive, so let's start there.

Truth!

There are people working on this in California already. Grown more foods that are native to the area is an easy beginning. The answers are not forward, they are backward.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/interactive...

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#162

Post by mercutio2 »

stevenwoo wrote: post #137
yalogin wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is going to tell middle California that they need to pay a lot higher to grow crops? The politicians sure won’t. The government is already an enemy in those parts.

When one drives on I-5 or 99 through central California, there are billboards every 10-20 miles telling people that big government is trying to stop farming by restricting water rights. There is a constant messaging campaign (for the 20+ years I have lived in California) and the signs all look the same, and it's the opposite of what you are writing.

Huh? Those signs all are arguing for more free water for agriculture.

That’s not the opposite of “The politicians won’t tell farmers to pay for their inefficient water use”.

Or maybe you’re arguing “yeah, politicians, won’t try to charge market rate for water, because the farmers are already up at arms at not having more subsidies thrown their way”?

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#163

Post by throwaway2037 »

SamBam wrote: post #125
tablespoon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even within the already small residential slice, regulations are weird. When my parents lived in the LA area, they had a large swimming pool and an irrigated lawn but were required to have ultra low flush toilets. The amount of water saved by those toilets (which often required multiple flushes to empty the bowl of waste) paled in comparison with the government approved swimming pool and sprinkler systems. How so?…

An uncovered pool loses thousands of gallons of water a month due to evaporation. More so in a bit and dry climate.

Is an uncovered pool still legal in California?

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#164

Post by anonAndOn »

lokar wrote: post #96
onphonenow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. You can look at this from an economics standpoint as well. We have run out of FREE water. If all water use in CA cost anywhere close to residential water rates ($8 / 100 cubic feet) there would be no shortage. Even a small tax of $0.01 per gallon would be a start in this space. We have exploded population and if you look at water projects (that actually deal with supply) have not done the same over 50 years or w…

The residents see it differently. They have been farming there for several generations and it's been mostly fine, the land is very productive when irrigated. The fact that it all depends on a massive public subsidy (both cash and water) from the rest of the state is ignored by then. They focus on arguments like "stop dumping water in the ocean" - eg make all the river run dry before reaching the coast, and "this is w…

Those "Stop dumping water in the ocean" signs are a direct result of the Resnick's marketing efforts to grow nuts in the California desert. You may not be familiar with the Resnick name, but you are probably familiar with some of their brands.[0]

[0]https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/08/lynda-stewar...

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#166

Post by danans »

neverartful wrote: post #52
DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

At what point should desalination plants be considered for agriculture irrigation in California?

The saltwater is in the ocean, and the agricultural areas lacking water (south central valley) are on the other side of the coastal mountain range. So it will be a huge energy expenditure to 1) desalinate and 2) pump the water over the mountain range.

I suspect it would be too expensive for agriculture, which relies on artificially cheap water.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#167

Post by seanalltogether »

deaddodo wrote: post #79
DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

> Meanwhile, they continue to push nonsense to help. The amount of water used by residences doing "outdoor watering" is miniscule. Agriculture is over 80% of the water use in california. If they were going to completely run out of water in a week, and all outdoor watering by residences would stop, it would buy you less than a day. This is definitely true and something I try to point out to people all the time. The Ca…

Water bottling is a red herring, that one arrowhead bottling facility in california that everyone likes to blame for water shortages uses the same amount of water in one year as a similar sized alfafa farm.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#168

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin »

DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

Driving through the Central Valley and seeing the signs saying “Build more dams” and “Stop letting our water be wasted to the ocean” really highlights the disconnect.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#169

Post by [deleted] »

twofornone wrote: post #128
lokar wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The residents see it differently. They have been farming there for several generations and it's been mostly fine, the land is very productive when irrigated. The fact that it all depends on a massive public subsidy (both cash and water) from the rest of the state is ignored by then. They focus on arguments like "stop dumping water in the ocean" - eg make all the river run dry before reaching the coast, and "this is w…

Do we even grow a sizeable proportion of staple crops in the western US? Isn't the majority of water going to crops like almonds (as opposed to grains)? Edit: looks like the bulk of land at least in california is allocated to hay production, with tomatoes in a somewhat distant second. https://www.nass.usda.gov/Quick_Stats/Ag_Overview/stateOverv...

[deleted]

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#170

Post by SamBam »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #163
SamBam wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An uncovered pool loses thousands of gallons of water a month due to evaporation. More so in a bit and dry climate.

Is an uncovered pool still legal in California?

Sure. I was just in San Diego and then in Palm Springs, in the desert. All the pools I saw were uncovered.
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