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Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

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Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#161

Post by galangalalgol »

GavinMcG wrote: post #130
djur wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "neurodiversity" viewpoint here is that what we call "ADHD" is part of the natural variation in how human brains work, and that it's a category error to think of it as a malfunction to be repaired, but rather as a difference to be accommodated. That accommodation may or may not be via medication and therapy, but that shouldn't necessarily mean that the underlying neurological state is a diseased one. A good analo…

That viewpoint makes the same strawman argument: > is part of the natural variation in how human brains work, and ... it's a category error to think of it as a malfunction to be repaired No! No one is saying that everyone at one end of the spectrum has a disorder. It is specifically not a category error because the term "disorder" is not applied based on the variability, but rather based on whether the variation mean…

But that exact same person in a different time, place, or career, might not be disrupted. I wasn't diagnosed until recently. The compounding of increasing demands at home with my family and at work, partially due to pandemic side effects lead to it. A hunter gatherer might actually gain benefits from it. Its like saying someone who is very tall has a disorder because it makes them a poor horse jockey, or a very short person has a disorder due to the impact on their NBA career.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#162

Post by hatware »

gfody wrote: post #79
hatware wrote: post #48

Wow, really nice article that gives practical examples of what ADD/HD looks like. I am not officially diagnosed, but I am 99% sure ADD/HD is something I have coped with my entire life. This has come up only recently with the pandemic forcing my schedule to change, and I started to realize how much the "9-5 routine" was keeping my train on its tracks and hiding any semblance of an attention disorder. It's really inter…

> wondering what your true potential looks like since adhd is treated with amphetamine which is essentially a performance enhancing drug that boosts your focus/awareness/intensity. it's probably dangerous to think of your medicated self's potential as being truer than your natural self's. seems like a trap.

When I say true potential, you must understand that this is from the perspective that my unmedicated ADHD brain is only about 30% efficient. Throwing a number out there, but I know that it's very hard for me to work efficiently if my environment isn't exactly right. I'm not interested in long term dependence on any drug and speak to true potential in a healthy, clinically medicated way.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#163

Post by photojosh »

hirvi74 wrote: post #121
porknubbins wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have family members with similar issues. If you could could elaborate, what are the common situations when ADD works in your favor, and what are the times when you find you need your brain to work differently?

Not the GP, but times I find it helpful: 1. When high levels of energy or reaction are required e.g. sports and games where reaction speed and/or impulsivity is advantageous. I have been told on multiple occasions when I have been in emergency situations with others, that I do not tend to "Freeze up" like many others do. 2. High stress environments -- When it gets down to "Fire and Brimstone" time, I can develop a "h…

hirvi, this is brilliant and so relateable, so thank you. Mine are very similar, but I would add with respect to your points...

1. Yes, but I also have to know that I am the one in charge... otherwise I will not take charge, but I will be ready to be told exactly what to do, and THAT I will do very quickly. [see A below]

2. Also yes, and true for software development too, but it makes the long burn so difficult. Give me a fire to put out! I casually know an ER doctor who is highly regarded, but his personal life is a mess and he's into extreme sports. (And saw my son when he came in with a suspected neck fracture.)

3. Again, yes. Once a solution has been found, I'm done! Implementing it? Naaah... that's the boring stuff.

4. Sort of... I think due to personality and temperament yes, but also upbringing.

Two more points building on those.

Autism and adhd have a high co-morbidity. If someone has social skills to the point where others comment on how good they are; highly unlikely that's you. If the idea that you "intellectualise social interaction" rings a bell, it might be the case.

Sensitivity issues. This is a reason behind my addition to point 1 above. The most mild of corrections comes across as an accusation that one is am totally worthless and useless. A constant running inner critic devaluing every thought and action. My experience is that this is silenced or at least turned down by medicating with stimulants... and it is totally liberating.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#164

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #119
djur wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "neurodiversity" viewpoint here is that what we call "ADHD" is part of the natural variation in how human brains work, and that it's a category error to think of it as a malfunction to be repaired, but rather as a difference to be accommodated. That accommodation may or may not be via medication and therapy, but that shouldn't necessarily mean that the underlying neurological state is a diseased one. A good analo…

But than the logical conclusion is there are no disorders only a failure to accommodate? If someone is psychotic and disconnected with reality are we just applying our neurotypical filter? Should we just accommodate people who hear voices?

[deleted]

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#165

Post by thevagrant »

throw314_ wrote: post #37

I think I might have ADD, but since I'm a straight A student, socially well adjusted and not hyperactive I can not get any healthcare professional to take my problems seriously. I cannot do things in time. Not even things that should be rewarding and fun. I cannot start tasks until it's too late, or in the rare event I start I cannot focus long enough on them to make a difference. I cannot really explain why. I know…

Suggest best is to talk to a psychiatrist. If you think it is adhd then see if you can find a specialist and try make a booking. It costs but you'll get help quicker than trying to talk to a GP.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#166

Post by ehnto »

pornel wrote: post #108
thenerdhead wrote: post #14

The part I hate most today is that if you relate to a video on ADHD/DID/Depression/Schizophrenia/etc, you will be fed the content until you convince yourself you have a “character trait”. That’s a serious problem with long term effects on society. I’m very sure I sit somewhere on the spectrum and have depressive disorder markers as well. But the last thing I want to do is to promote these traits. I am not proud of th…

Can you please stop with the "candy" trope? Here in the UK, ADHD drugs are controlled substances. They can only be prescribed as by registered psychiatrists as part of ongoing treatment with patient monitoring. There are not enough doctors qualified to do this, and as a result people who need the treatment are facing year-long queues. Don't get medical advice from TikTok, and don't form an opinion of a mental disorde…

The person you are replying to is well aware that it's a bad thing, that's why they pointed it out.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#167

Post by opportune »

As someone diagnosed with ADHD later in life, a lot of these ADHD superpowers are just the result of taking dopaminergic stimulants. Especially the hyper focus and feeling superior to people staring out the window or failing to heads-down work for several hours straight. Yes you can hyperfocus even without stimulants, but the real superpower is having access to them so you can channel that consistently.

I personally believe everybody should be allowed to take these stimulants if they want to, because many people would benefit from it. The propaganda around stimulants working radically differently on those with ADHD vs those without is just that (I can go on about why I think that in much more detail). Ask anybody you’re close with how taking their friend’s adderall to study worked out. Look into people like Paul Erdos.

Anyway, I think you can definitely argue that there is a lot more nuance to psychiatry than you see in clinical settings (probably many disorders should be broken up into multiple others, others are just symptoms rather than a problem itself, others are not even disorders but just a different way of being). But really all that matters is that psychiatrists can match symptoms to treatments that work. Matching poor/misdirected executive function to medication that “boosts” dopamine and norepinephrine works pretty well, so why worry about the name of the condition?

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#168

Post by psyclobe »

TrackerFF wrote: post #7

I have ADHD (ADD), and was diagnosed after 30 - though I've greatly suffered from it since my teenage years. Sure, it is a big part of me, always has been, but I don't really make it part of my identity. I can't control it like a superpower, and there are serious consequences if you're not careful. I've noticed that in the ADHD community, there are some very vocal people that will wear the diagnosis with pride. I mea…

Same, it's been nothing but a liability and to be perfectly frank it makes my daily life way more stressful than it should be.

The biggest part I don't like is the inability to ever really be 'here in the now' e.g. enjoying the moment. All these important life events just fly by me without even reacting to them it seems, and only in hindsight do I start tearing up thinking about what I missed.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#169

Post by cbfrench »

photojosh wrote: post #141
GavinMcG wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That viewpoint makes the same strawman argument: > is part of the natural variation in how human brains work, and ... it's a category error to think of it as a malfunction to be repaired No! No one is saying that everyone at one end of the spectrum has a disorder. It is specifically not a category error because the term "disorder" is not applied based on the variability, but rather based on whether the variation mean…

Yes! I would just add that I like to refer to it as "attention dysregulation " rather than 'deficit'... my experience I can focus on one singular task to the exclusion of all other needs and demands (even base biological ones), to point of being in pain and exhaustion and causing myself harm. Staying up for 40 hours programming... running trails for hours and hours... I have more than enough attention.

That’s a major reason why Dr. Russell Barkley refers to it as Executive Function Disorder. We actually don’t have a problem with attention; we have a problem prioritizing what we attend to. Everyone with ADHD is familiar with the hyperfocus phenomenon. We can pay attention (even sustained, abnormally intense attention) to activities that provide a healthy dopamine payout, but we don’t really control what those activities are. It’s helpful if they happen to be socially useful activities!

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#170

Post by opportune »

TrackerFF wrote: post #7

I have ADHD (ADD), and was diagnosed after 30 - though I've greatly suffered from it since my teenage years. Sure, it is a big part of me, always has been, but I don't really make it part of my identity. I can't control it like a superpower, and there are serious consequences if you're not careful. I've noticed that in the ADHD community, there are some very vocal people that will wear the diagnosis with pride. I mea…

Completely agree. I think it is just part of the general trend for people to try to attach themselves to labels in search of an identity or community - of course some labels are very readily apparent so you are kind of forced by society to identify with the label, but for a mostly invisible condition like ADHD I really don’t get it.

On a lot of ADHD communities it’s just a constant struggle session about how every problem in people’s life is because of ADHD. It’s exhausting and seems maladaptive.

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