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Shanghai video overwhelms Chinese censor, gets 400M views

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Re: Shanghai video overwhelms Chinese censor, gets 400M views

#161

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

native_samples wrote: post #157
powerapple wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree and disagree. Lockdown can work until it does not work. Science can evaluate the speed of spread, does not dictate what's happening. My city had a short lockdown a few month ago, Shenzhen and Guangzhou just finished lockdown. It is fair to say 9/10 worked. It is more difficult to contain Omicron, science can say that. Also virus won't spread when no one is moving, science can also say that. It is just a trade o…

This is yet more tautologies. Science doesn't dictate what's happening but it is meant to predict what's happening. That's the whole point of science. In this case the fake pseudo-scientists that claim to understand disease spread predict that lockdown will reduce disease spread but it doesn't. They can't explain why lockdowns don't work, which makes it not science. As for your belief that 9/10 worked - please. Pleas…

> In this case the fake pseudo-scientists that claim to understand disease spread predict that lockdown will reduce disease spread but it doesn't.

What's your basis for saying that lockdowns don't reduce spread? They do dramatically affect spread - that's been seen in every country. It's almost impossible for them not to affect spread. The virus propagates from person to person, mostly by them breathing the same air. If you reduce contacts between people, you reduce viral spread. This is about as well established as the statement that things fall.

Re: Shanghai video overwhelms Chinese censor, gets 400M views

#162

Post by mdp2021 »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #159
mdp2021 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not a comparison, it is a description and an identification (a "classification", in ML terms).

When people hear "concentration camp," they think about the Nazi camps during WWII where people were gassed, starved or worked to death. They don't think of a large makeshift hospital that you go to for 10 days, in which you're given 3 hot meals a day, and in which you spend your time lying in bed, trying to fight off boredom by scrolling your smartphone. This sort of hyperbolic language is silly, and is disrespectfu…

Diogenes, while I agree that «hyperbolic language is silly» and occasionally «disrespectful», if we let "history", the non progressive instances of history, eat up our language then we would lose something extremely precious.

«"When people hear they think"» is an enemy of language and more.

If you wanted to interpret «"occasionally"» in the first sentence of this post as "seldom", because "when people hear they think", instead of "according to occasion", which is what was meant, then that very sentence would be disrespectful. But you should know this was not what was intended.

You know how it works with servers: strict in the output, tolerant in the intake.

Re: Shanghai video overwhelms Chinese censor, gets 400M views

#163

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

mdp2021 wrote: post #162
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people hear "concentration camp," they think about the Nazi camps during WWII where people were gassed, starved or worked to death. They don't think of a large makeshift hospital that you go to for 10 days, in which you're given 3 hot meals a day, and in which you spend your time lying in bed, trying to fight off boredom by scrolling your smartphone. This sort of hyperbolic language is silly, and is disrespectfu…

Diogenes, while I agree that «hyperbolic language is silly» and occasionally «disrespectful», if we let "history", the non progressive instances of history, eat up our language then we would lose something extremely precious. «"When people hear they think"» is an enemy of language and more. If you wanted to interpret «"occasionally"» in the first sentence of this post as "seldom", because "when people hear they think…

The term "concentration camp" is almost entirely associated with the Holocaust.

The people using that term to describe makeshift hospitals want their listeners/readers to draw that connection.

Re: Shanghai video overwhelms Chinese censor, gets 400M views

#164

Post by mdp2021 »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #163
mdp2021 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diogenes, while I agree that «hyperbolic language is silly» and occasionally «disrespectful», if we let "history", the non progressive instances of history, eat up our language then we would lose something extremely precious. «"When people hear they think"» is an enemy of language and more. If you wanted to interpret «"occasionally"» in the first sentence of this post as "seldom", because "when people hear they think…

The term "concentration camp" is almost entirely associated with the Holocaust. The people using that term to describe makeshift hospitals want their listeners/readers to draw that connection.

> The term... is almost entirely associated

By whom? Who tells you the speaker considers their association(s) relevant? They are not entitled to assume those associations outside their own mind (and even inside it, that does not seem proper mental hygiene nor proper process).

> The people using that term

False. /Some/ people - irregardless of the number - use language that way. Other people do not, and hold that treatment of language in contempt: they do not care about "familiar" language in which a clan of two or two billion decide that they will interpret some term in some way specific to them. (What does 'familiar' mean just a few terms earlier?)

Re: Shanghai video overwhelms Chinese censor, gets 400M views

#165

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

mdp2021 wrote: post #164
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "concentration camp" is almost entirely associated with the Holocaust. The people using that term to describe makeshift hospitals want their listeners/readers to draw that connection.

> The term... is almost entirely associated By whom? Who tells you the speaker considers their association(s) relevant? They are not entitled to assume those associations outside their own mind (and even inside it, that does not seem proper mental hygiene nor proper process). > The people using that term False. /Some/ people - irregardless of the number - use language that way. Other people do not, and hold that trea…

> By whom?

By people who speak the English language.

The reason why people are calling makeshift hospitals "concentration camps" is precisely because they want their listeners/readers to think about Nazi concentration camps, and to recoil in horror. If you look at the specific blog we're talking about, they use terms like "deportation," which are likewise meant to make people think of the Holocaust.

This is a common rhetorical tactic, and it's not limited to the term "concentration camps." During the pandemic, opponents of vaccine passes and testing requirements have frequently compared these measures to measures taken by the Nazis.

As for your talk of "clans" and such, I'm a bit puzzled as to what you're talking about. Language is a means of communication, and it's clear that this blog is trying to communicate the message that sending people who test positive to makeshift hospitals in like the Nazis deporting millions of people to concentration camps.

Re: Shanghai video overwhelms Chinese censor, gets 400M views

#166

Post by udev »

jollybean wrote: post #91
paganel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am curious when China will adjust their model/plan for COVID to consider the vast amount of counter-evidence that is accumulating. Probably it will take at least one year and a half - two years, at least that's how long it took the Western authorities to somehow change their discourse. Some people around the Western parts of the world still believe in mask mandates, to say nothing of the vaccine mandates if you w…

Where is this 'vast amount of evidence' anyhow? So far they've had to have ugly lockdowns in a few cities, but it's a tiny fraction of the overall population. If it goes on for a long while - this will be a problem, but if they got away with it by having lockdowns - even late into the game - I wouldn't call it a failure. That said, we really don't know what a lot of the numbers are.

Here in Canada some provinces did use lock-downs (even with curfews) and some didn't, and comparisons made between them show that lock-down was one of the least effective measures.

I am sure similar data exists for US states, EU countries, etc.

Re: Shanghai video overwhelms Chinese censor, gets 400M views

#167

Post by mdp2021 »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #165
mdp2021 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The term... is almost entirely associated By whom? Who tells you the speaker considers their association(s) relevant? They are not entitled to assume those associations outside their own mind (and even inside it, that does not seem proper mental hygiene nor proper process). > The people using that term False. /Some/ people - irregardless of the number - use language that way. Other people do not, and hold that trea…

> By whom? By people who speak the English language. The reason why people are calling makeshift hospitals "concentration camps" is precisely because they want their listeners/readers to think about Nazi concentration camps, and to recoil in horror. If you look at the specific blog we're talking about, they use terms like "deportation," which are likewise meant to make people think of the Holocaust. This is a common…

> By people who speak the English language

No, really not. I do speak it, and I surely I would not use it that way.

> If you look at the specific blog

If you believe that the author of that page was being manipulative, I will not argue - I don't know. If you are sure of that, I hope you are on solid grounds. But in general, when somebody says 'deportation', that is meant to mean some meaning in the cone of "deportation" as a function of the context - not "the statistical mode in the set of interpretations that a mesmerized mind crippled to passivity has emerge in a game of associations".

> I'm a bit puzzled

If you chose as a name "Diogenes Kynikos", you should consistently be wary and distant of what people in general do and think. If one does, like Diogenes Kynikos does, others will too, surely. That rules out that language could ever universally be some "game of associations", as some surely would not participate to it - Diogenes would not. And cultural differences suffice to break the possibility of relying on cultural associations (outside the manipulation of specific targets by malicious agents) - you cannot know if your listener is part of your "clan" and shares your metaphors, the "language to understand each other in the family". And this is part of why we do not rely on cultural references in our expression.

Also, we would not because language intended to be evocative of emotionally charged images would be, immoral (emotional manipulation is immoral). So, no, normal people do not speak that way. Malicious agents could - only them actually.

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