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Is my advice too mercenary?

jacobian.org

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Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#161
post #91

There was a time in America a generation or two ago when you could give your all to a company. Here in Michigan there were a number of small towns where a single employer would dominate. If the town needed something, like a baseball park the owner would simply write a check. If a loyal employee had a health crisis that insurance didn't cover the company owner would write a check. When there were tough economic times…

> There was a time in America a generation or two ago when you could give your all to a company.

The problem with these advice columns is that they aren't saying "don't give your all to a company".

They end up saying "your company is the enemy". The original article that this blog refers to was titled "Exit interviews are a trap", which many pointed out was a gross exaggeration. It assumes that every company performing an exit interview is doing something malicious, which is a ridiculous claim.

Yes, it's possible that some companies somewhere are using exit interviews as some sort of trap to get dirt or leverage over employees, and it's also true that you shouldn't rush in and use it as an opportunity to complain about everyone you hated at the company. However, it's unreasonable to assume that it's a trap and that the company is interested in nothing more than revenge.

That's the problem with these advice blogs. They cater to an idea that managers and HR are "the other", and once someone crosses the line to management or HR, they become evil and incapable of doing anything other than abusing you for no good reason.

We should warn young people about abusive employers, but it's not helpful to teach them that employers are universally malicious.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#162
This piece is mostly a response to how people here thought the author was too paranoid about being honest in an exit interview. And the answer is unionization?

I 100% agree you should be a mercenary at work. Look out for number 1, HR isn't your friend, etc. But being so paranoid you can't even speak your mind in a nearly zero stakes situation of talking to your company before you leave speaks to a very negative outlook on work that seems honestly exhausting.

And more to point, if you are a good mercenary, unionization only harms you.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#163
Small aside, reading all these conversations: I just think a lot of static gets injected into these discussions about wage/employers/comp on HN because a large majority of the commenters here are either currently business owners, or founders, or trying to be either of those. But there is also a huge contingent of people who do regular waged labor here, whether FAANG or freelance. Beyond any political differences, I think this is the main operating tension here, when there is one.

The very essence of this website is not amenable to workers coming together to discuss things like the propriety of employment-tied healthcare, or what we should expect from our managers, but mostly for aspiring and current startup leaders to, probably, discuss everything but that stuff. It is a forum attached to a startup incubator after all, and I can't imagine much VC money goes to those companies that are worried about their own labor related issues/externalities, at least those that they don't need to legally be worried about.

I don't think anything is lost here, there is no problem per se, discussions are of course not being diminished by this ultimately demographic point; but just... if you come to these threads and feel a little disappointed that there is not a more universal solidarity towards the basic decency of the worker, just remember it is because not everyone here is a worker!

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#164

It truly is shocking that health insurance is tied to employment status. I really think this is a large part of the trend towards overt ruthlessness in the USA, no one has their back so they have no ones back, as people age and experience medical bankruptcy (or narrowly avoid it at great cost) they are realizing this ruthlessness in our system.

Health insurance is not tied to employment status. Anyone can go to healthcare.gov and buy an equivalent BCBS or Kaiser or whatever gold/silver/bronze insurance. Unless you are in a particularly shitty state. What employers do have is the ability to sell you health insurance with pre tax dollars, which is also available to self employed individuals. But the people who are screwed are those who are employed by employe…

>Health insurance is not tied to employment status. Anyone can go to healthcare.gov and buy an equivalent BCBS or Kaiser or whatever gold/silver/bronze insurance. Unless you are in a particularly shitty state.

Out of curiosity, I went and looked up the plans in NJ for a 32 year old person(56k salary). This is someone in a lower risk pool. The bronze plans are in the upper ~280$/month and include a $6000 deductible. There are three plans out of 36 that are ~380 a month that have a $2500 deductible. Everything else is more. This is NJ, one of the better states and definitely not a shitty state. These plans are garbage. Every time someone on HN extols the virtues of Healthcare.gov, I recheck my options and they always come back much worse than what I get working for a private employer (typical S&P 500 corp). I wish people would look up their possible plans on Healthcare.gov before tossing it out as something other than a scam.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#165
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine what would cause a person to act like that, and on his last day/week of work! Some kind of psycopathy?

Yeah I am manager. I am pretty honest with my employees. One of my normal sayings is "you have to look out for #1 " (#1 = yourself its not a Star Trek reference) That said i never say things like that on comms. And usually preclude them with things like "this conversation never happened" etc. But i feel like part of my job is to give them career and life advancement advice and if that means leaving my team...so be it…

I have worked with maybe a couple of managers like you in my career, and I have to say I was truly heartbroken when they moved one. It was the most enjoyable and productive years in my career.

It's sad that a manager saying to the employee "you have to look out for #1" has to be off the record.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that any different than some fiefdom ruled over by some noble? The whole point of democracy and elective government is that you can't rely on a system like that to be consistently good, whether it's the Duke's son squandering all the wealth and not listening to the people or a shift in management at the company. Just because sometimes there were benevolent companies that decided to contribute to their communit…

> Require employees be paid and treated fairly. The problem is this isn't well defined. Somewhere maybe in the 1980s greed became good and the responsibilities of corporations shifted from being a fictional person that could benefit society to a thing that was in it for shareholders only. This is a cultural shift borne by MBAs and thinktanks, not something that can be pinned down to a specific incident. As usual sunl…

> The problem is this isn't well defined.

This is not entirely untrue, but it's not particularly supported by the rest of your post.

Even if it's hard to completely define what "paid and treated fairly" mean, it's crystal clear that a very large percentage of employers today don't meet even the lowest possible bar—that being a living wage and not actively abusing the employees.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#167
post #91

There was a time in America a generation or two ago when you could give your all to a company. Here in Michigan there were a number of small towns where a single employer would dominate. If the town needed something, like a baseball park the owner would simply write a check. If a loyal employee had a health crisis that insurance didn't cover the company owner would write a check. When there were tough economic times…

How is that any different than some fiefdom ruled over by some noble? The whole point of democracy and elective government is that you can't rely on a system like that to be consistently good, whether it's the Duke's son squandering all the wealth and not listening to the people or a shift in management at the company. Just because sometimes there were benevolent companies that decided to contribute to their communit…

> Benevolent companies are just a precursor to abusive ones

Which is exactly what happened in their situation! They "hoped" that the company would just remain nice out of the goodness of their hearts, and did not make sure that those benefits were built into the system. Surprise: when ownership changed hands, the gravy train was over and the people had no actual infrastructure to sustain themselves.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

covid vaccines?

> pandemic/disease control Edit: also a much more significant factor only in densely populated areas

sure, just pointing out that the _funding and availability_ of a social service wasn't a point of contention there. unintuitive as it is, the discourse around public health and health care aren't really related. anyway i was just giving people some background, not opining. if i was feeling saucy i might say something incoherent about people feeling entitled to a service they previously resented as soon as it's useful to them

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health insurance is not tied to employment status. Anyone can go to healthcare.gov and buy an equivalent BCBS or Kaiser or whatever gold/silver/bronze insurance. Unless you are in a particularly shitty state. What employers do have is the ability to sell you health insurance with pre tax dollars, which is also available to self employed individuals. But the people who are screwed are those who are employed by employe…

>Health insurance is not tied to employment status. Anyone can go to healthcare.gov and buy an equivalent BCBS or Kaiser or whatever gold/silver/bronze insurance. Unless you are in a particularly shitty state. Out of curiosity, I went and looked up the plans in NJ for a 32 year old person(56k salary). This is someone in a lower risk pool. The bronze plans are in the upper ~280$/month and include a $6000 deductible. T…

What does box 12 code DD on your W-2 say? Your employer is probably just paying a lot for your coverage.

When I got quotes for insuring my employees in NJ, they all matched up with the premiums on healthcare.gov, also seen here:

https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...

ACA compliant health insurance pricing is pretty commodified since all the rating factors are codified in law (age, location, smoking status, and that is it I think).

Edit:

>These plans are garbage

The plans simply reflect the cost of healthcare. The companies that sell the healthcare have profit margins in the sub 5% range. Mechanisms to bring the cost down would be to have taxpayer funded medicine in the public domain so the medicine is sold without patent, increasing number of doctors by greatly expanding residency positions and reducing training requirements so that you can start practicing before age 28, reducing the need for "certificates of need" so more hospitals can open and compete, etc.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#170
I recently joined a big tech company. It was a long term project and something quite new to me as I switched career and was working in a different context. There are pros and cons, but it's a bit of a disappointment.

I've got the impression very quickly that absolutely nobody cares about me in this company and that employees mostly don't love what they do. Specifically - There's a high turn-over - Everybody is focused on their performance, compensation and on improving evaluation metrics - Right after joining, I found the form explaining how to resign. Extremely easy. - People do get fired: including a skilled, friendly, colleague of mine (didn't meet expectations for two semesters). - Management knows how to keep the pressure high (in a friendly manner) - I can't like my project: there are too many things to do and broken things to fix, also no feeling of ownership, no incentives to refactor or redesign.

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