I am just so sick of all the cheating. Every time you turn around, some business, politician, or wealthy person is corrupt as f** and everyone who can do anything about it won't.
Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
161–170 of 409 posts
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#162> "What is a shock: This time around, the SEC and DOJ have both declined to investigate Microsoft over the same types of bribes in the Middle East and Africa. They acknowledged my evidence (which I submitted three times) yet did not take up the case, claiming that the current pandemic has prevented them from gathering more evidence from abroad—even though I have already provided documentation that I believe shows Mic…
Are the bribes being directed by MS US or are these things taking place in overseas offices where customs are different? One example was Hungary --I imagine Ukraine and Nigeria too would have executives there who are part of the local culture where they do things differently. While the actions go afoul of US law, they may be in line with local customs culture and practices --that is harder to root out as now you are…
While working as an executive for eBay in Germany, the company made it totally clear on many occasions what illegal behaviour is and that they would take action. And the standards were the higher US standards not the lower German ones.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
By enforcing anti corruption on the parent company in the US, the parent company should in turn communicate and enforce their own anti corruption stance and policies on their foreign subsidiaries or branches. If there is no consequence for the parent company then the opposite might happen: extra money used for bribes is provided to the foreign subsidiaries with a wink; now the corruption is increasing.
> By enforcing anti corruption on the parent company in the US https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/microsoft-corp/summary?id=D... Ooops.
Agreed that the US Supreme Court decision on the Citizens United case was terrible and we are suffering the consequences of an an alternate indirect form of bribery as you point out. But this is head and shoulders above direct bribery which we still thankfully classify as illegal. The US has room to improve but let’s not regress just because we’re not 100% of the way there.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same in India. In fact, public officials are paid very little with the expectation that they will supplement their income with bribes. It's just absolutely normal to get literally anything done with a government office in almost any non-western country.
> public officials are paid very little with the expectation that they will supplement their income with bribes. I'd like to offer my own perspective on this issue, having spent a lot of time in the third-world, that may not be obvious to many of us in the western world or from more developed economies. Many countries that are struggling with i.e. building robust transportation and energy infrastructure, are also str…
Even in that light bribes are still bad. With a tax I can look at the law and know exactly how much I need to pay, and also how much my competition paid. That later is a big deal, if my competitor different from me, then they have an advantage over me (sometimes this is a larger bribe ensuring better service, sometimes it is a cheaper bribe would have done the same).
Also, bribes are not always money. Many are paid in sex. Not only does this exploit women (as if that isn't bad enough), but it also means it may not be every possible for me to compete so long as the woman my competitor got is willing.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#165> "What is a shock: This time around, the SEC and DOJ have both declined to investigate Microsoft over the same types of bribes in the Middle East and Africa. They acknowledged my evidence (which I submitted three times) yet did not take up the case, claiming that the current pandemic has prevented them from gathering more evidence from abroad—even though I have already provided documentation that I believe shows Mic…
Why would anyone be shocked?
This is how business is done in most of the world.
If it's a 'standard practice' - then it is 'accounted for' and effectively part of the equation.
How else do you think think the states vast wealth trickles out to it's citizens?
The $10M Bribe to the Minister of Education goes t pay for the construction of his Mansion, staff, services.
What 'mostly matters' in these kinds of situations frankly is de facto transparency and efficacy.
If the ration are 'understood' and actually well-strutted, then there's a kind of de-facto transparency. In the case of a rich state like Qatar, it might actually be better than simply having nothing.
You could argue the 'lack of competitiveness' from MSFT bids given alternatives, but in many cases it really might not matter, the 'winner' was a fait-accompli anyhow.
When this is Nigeria, and the state is providing it's citizens with nothing, then it's much more of a problem.
I should also note that this is a function of the regional system, not MS.
MS is playing the game that's handed to them. Their alternative choice is to pull out of all of those markets, and hand them over to other businesses who operate that way.
The 'problem' should mostly be directed at state agencies setting up the system.
There should be more analysis and journalism on this kind of stuff, particularly because it does happen in countries wherein 'regular people' do end up paying the price, but the focus should on the agencies, not businesses who would otherwise play fairly.
This is a nuanced issue and we should not be 'shocked and horrified' by it, this almost implies a serious kind of naivte.
We need to recognise that it's complicated before just trying to 'blame MSFT'.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#166Former Microsoftie here. After all the business ethics training videos I had to sit through, I am infuriated by this.
Those annual trainings are there to show compliance. This prevents pro active investigations by authorities into business conduct. Without those corporations are free to engage in all kinda of shady business behaviour. And when something turns sideways, the offending employees passed the training, so the company is shielded, to an extend.
> the offending employees passed the training
This is the definition of ineffective training :)
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is a bribe but it is accepted and perhaps not illegal
It probably is illegal but the countries have weak rule of law (if rule of law is even a thing in those countries at all). Note that there are differences between fees and bribery, if something can be legally presented as a fee, it is no longer considered a bribe (important if you are an American or American company).
This is why I brought up the example of pre-tipping. It is clearly not a fee but it is generally accepted. If you hand the Valet a $20 and say please park it close, is it a tip, fee, or bribe?
How about at a bar, can you tell the bar tender "I have an extra $5 if you make it a heavy pour"?
How about attending the Salesforce conference but it's mostly because you want to visit SF and see Metallica/Chainsmokers?
We have bribes in the US, we just don't think of them as bribes.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are the bribes being directed by MS US or are these things taking place in overseas offices where customs are different? One example was Hungary --I imagine Ukraine and Nigeria too would have executives there who are part of the local culture where they do things differently. While the actions go afoul of US law, they may be in line with local customs culture and practices --that is harder to root out as now you are…
I live in Kazakhstan and while I don't have any evidence, I'm pretty sure that many huge western companies operating here bribed officials. I don't think that's necessary part of local culture. Of course in poor country officials with $200/month salary are happy to get $1000 gift for signing $100 000 agreement. Western companies are huge part of corruption source here. That's my opinion. I've heard that Ikea decided…
Don't for a second suggest that this is about 'foreign companies bribing their way into something'.
It's 100% powerful officials 'demanding kickbacks' for contracts and business - which is exactly 'the culture' that goes on in literally most of the world.
The comments here are (and I don't mean to be denigrating) naive.
Imagine that for all major contracts, say 10% will split between the buyer, possibly the 'local official' making the sale, possibly a 3rd party connection. It's been like that 'always'.
The only way this will change, is if local government require it to happen.
IKEA tried to hold out in Russia and they did for years. Until they caved paid the local mafia-ish guy his cut. And then Moscow got IKEAS. That's it. No cut, no IKEA.
IKEA does not bribe people in US, Canada, Germany. (or at least not in any systematic way)
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same in India. In fact, public officials are paid very little with the expectation that they will supplement their income with bribes. It's just absolutely normal to get literally anything done with a government office in almost any non-western country.
Yup, it is mindbogglingly unimaginable to people who spent their whole lives living in the west, but as someone who moved out of Russia over a decade ago, it is the exact same thing there. Extremely normalized in every single aspect. Applying for a passport? Well, you can do it normally, wait 9-12 months, hope papers don't get lost in the process (again), and maybe eventually you will be able to get it after a 2nd or…
I suspect things may have improved in Russia since then, there is plenty of screwed up stuff but in my adult life I (and as far as I know my friends) had never been forced to bribe someone to accomplish something (passport, driving license, etc.), much less routinely do so. But then I was a small self-employed fish, and in fact due to my expectation of bribery I chose not to execute any business ideas in Russia. (Which so far seems not to have been a bad decision.)
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same in India. In fact, public officials are paid very little with the expectation that they will supplement their income with bribes. It's just absolutely normal to get literally anything done with a government office in almost any non-western country.
Yup, it is mindbogglingly unimaginable to people who spent their whole lives living in the west, but as someone who moved out of Russia over a decade ago, it is the exact same thing there. Extremely normalized in every single aspect. Applying for a passport? Well, you can do it normally, wait 9-12 months, hope papers don't get lost in the process (again), and maybe eventually you will be able to get it after a 2nd or…
This is important for Westerners to understand i.e. 'different rules' and that's material to the situation.