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Inside Putin's Circle

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Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#161

Post by _jal »

qiskit wrote: post #65
SkinTaco wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What were you hoping the readers of your comment would gain from your comment? Apologies if this comes off abrasively. This is a genuine question that thought to myself when I read your comment. I can't think of a better way to phrase it.

Edification. Nobody says "wear a gun". It doesn't sound right. Was assuming the commenter was a non-native english speaker and was helping him out.

"Carry a gun" ngram frequency:

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=carry+a+gun&ye...

"Wear a gun":

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=wear+a+gun&yea...

Shorter: "Carry" is about twice as popular as "wear".

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#162

Post by geoka9 »

yucky wrote: post #141
geoka9 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then stop helping Ukraine? But then don't be surprised when Putin invades Latvia and Estonia.

>don't be surprised when Putin invades Latvia and Estonia. They are NATO countries, so no. People are acting all surprised by this Ukraine invasion but it's been an ongoing thing for many years. This didn't just happen. Even before the coup/revolution in 2014.

> They are NATO countries, so no.

Why? Because Latvia and Estonia would sue the rest of NATO for not abiding by the treaty? Is there any other reason the West would not try to prevent a nuclear apocalypse by appeasing Putin with these "token" countries? Does the rest of the NATO countries really want to die for them? Do we really want to test that hypothesis?

Take a look at the Putin's speeches starting with the 2007 one in Munich, and including the ultimatum Russia presented to the West just before the current invasion. Look up the "Escalate to Deescalate" strategy and the Russian nuclear doctrine. Read the Kremlin-funded "historians" and "philosophers" and Putin's own writings on Russia and Ukraine.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#163

Post by jacquesm »

worik wrote: post #83
Animats wrote: post #41

That's a very useful and important article. So that's who Putin talks to. A very small group who share his worldview: It is the manifest destiny of Mother Russia to have an empire in Eastern Europe. A key point that has emerged from a number of sources is that Putin's crowd has no plan B. This isn't considered by Russia's leadership to be just a military adventure - if it works, great, if it doesn't work, pull back a…

> Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed. Or Russia wins

I'm sure that if they are the last man standing and all of Ukraine is turned into rubble soaked through with blood that they'll declare victory. But it won't amount to much.

Real people with power build they don't destroy. The likes of Putin only know how to kill and how to destroy.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#164

Post by just-ok »

pstuart wrote: post #125
khuey wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Chinese model" is fundamentally underwritten by exporting vast quantities of goods to the West which Putin just blew up any hope of doing.

Other than fossil fuels and vodka, what does Russia have to offer the world?

Russia is the world’s largest exporter of wheat and second-largest exporter of weapons. Ignorant comments like these do nothing to reduce tensions between Russians and the West.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#165

Post by jacquesm »

hurflmurfl wrote: post #75
galaxyLogic wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes HN is supposed to be about intellectually interesting ideas. And the fight against war and fascism needs those because otherwise we are in deep sh*t. So why not combine the two? The situation with Russia is much about information. HN is about information and IT, no? HN could be the primary forum to discuss ways to counter MIS-information. There seems to be a deep problem in Russia, its citizens are mostly duped b…

Just this once, I want to contribute a "view from the inside" on how things work in Russia [in my opinion]. Sure, some people are hoodwinked by the propaganda. However, a weird misunderstanding is that "if they new what the Truth was, they would surely relent". From what I've gathered growing up in Russia, that's not quite the case. I don't know why, but a lot of people here have a very apathetic view on politics. In…

I'll make it easier: it requires a lot more mental fortitude to observe that the country that nominally represents you is engaging in something abhorrent so the mind wants to believe the lies, because they are more comfortable.

That is why propaganda is so efficient.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#166

Post by richardknop »

just-ok wrote: post #145
huhtenberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"siloviki" is literally a "men of power" ("sila" in Russian is "power" in English) => these include the FSB (an FBI equivalent, or the ex-KGB in practice) and MVD (the police). That's it.

“sila” is strength, not power. Power is “vlast.”

Are you sure about that? I know Google Translate says "vlast" but I speak a Slavic language and "vlast" means motherhood/home in my language. Could be just the online translation not being accurate?

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#167

Post by dillondoyle »

yucky wrote: post #131
agumonkey wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's also long interviews from 2017~ on PBS Frontline IIRC, a series called "Putin files" Julia Ioffe, Masha Gessen It's partial but has a lot of detail On the other side there are the Russian friendly views such as Mearsheimer or even Stone. It's difficult to weigh what is true (even though I'm biased anti aggressor in this case)

>Russian friendly views such as Mearsheimer I don't know that I would refer to Professor Mearsheimer's view as pro-Russian, he has plenty of criticism of Putin and the Russian political system in general. But the fact that he has been railing on the likely consequences of our approach for dealing with the Russia/Ukraine situation for years, and been proved right, should make his writing and interviews required for an…

What would the better approach be? Sorry Ukraine, the Maidan was cute but no, you can not join 'the west'

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#168

Post by jacquesm »

agumonkey wrote: post #153
jacquesm wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mearsheimer has been trotted out by so many people that likely never heard of him three weeks ago that it's getting a bit tiring.

Many of us are binge reading history in all directions. But yeah the authority-flooding is exhausting. I mostly mentioned him to balance my comment. I have no idea which is true or not here.

What he states is historically true, and if you oversimplify it you might come to the conclusion that Russia simply had to invade Ukraine. But that's bullshit, nothing good ever came of it. The dumb part is that the West financed this war, not that they caused it.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#169

Post by trhway »

tartoran wrote: post #138
trhway wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good news - as result of Ukraine war failure these lowlifes are starting to eat each other - the director of foreign intelligence of FSB has just got arrested for "embezzling money intended for sabotage and gathering of intelligence in Ukraine and for providing false information about political situation in Ukraine" :) From https://www.thedailybeast.com/now-russia-is-bombing-western-... : "Meanwhile, panic appears to…

Putin surrounded himself with yes men. These people are afraid to displease Putin and end up taking shortcuts left and right to give him what he wants. Only fear is keeping this system from crumbling, they’re all afraid of eachother. “ Soldierov told the British Times that it could well be that the FSB had realistic knowledge of the situation in Ukraine - the only question was what was passed on to Putin. "The proble…

Anybody who watched just some Ukrainian TV (I like Zelensky's humor production) in recent years knew it, no need for whole spy agency. Of course they told Putin what he wanted to hear.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#170

Post by agumonkey »

jacquesm wrote: post #168
agumonkey wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us are binge reading history in all directions. But yeah the authority-flooding is exhausting. I mostly mentioned him to balance my comment. I have no idea which is true or not here.

What he states is historically true, and if you oversimplify it you might come to the conclusion that Russia simply had to invade Ukraine. But that's bullshit, nothing good ever came of it. The dumb part is that the West financed this war, not that they caused it.

What can I say.. in this era we keep watching back to find who did what.. and international relationships history is a dumpster of vague talks, mild backstabbing, potential manipulations.. and kilotons of paranoia. I can never find any clarity in this.

I kinda agree that the putin logic is far fetched..

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