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Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

reuters.com

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Re: Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

#161

Post by foverzar »

friedturkey wrote: post #68
logicchains wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that some of the Azov are literally Nazis ( https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/german-tv-s... ), that's hardly completely beyond the realms of possibility. Or we're supposed to start giving Nazis the benefit of the doubt now just because Russia started it?

Russia is also a known hotbed for neonazis. So is Alabama. Just because a region has small factions of race extremists it doesn’t mean they’re blowing up nuclear reactors. But Russia’s history of false flag operations and whataboutism are so well-documented that it’s literally a textbook example. They’ve invaded Georgia and Ukraine before using the same exact lies. Putin’s history in Chechnya is also horrific. So you…

> Russia is also a known hotbed for neonazis

Any source to it that doesn't try to stretch the meaning of pseudo-term "right-wing" to mean "neonazis"? Are there knows instances of Russia openly incorporating entities publicly identifying with neonazi rhetorics and symbolics into their government structures?

> But Russia’s history of false flag operations and whataboutism are so well-documented that it’s literally a textbook example.

Could you refer us to this documentation? Should be an interesting read.

> They’ve invaded Georgia before using the same exact lies

Are you denying the fact that Saakashvili had invaded Tskhinvali, the capital of South Osetia, trying to solve a century old ethnic conflict[1] by force, which was last time put on cold under Russia's military guarantees[2]? What lies are you referring to exactly?

1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian–Ossetian_conflict

2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sochi_agreement

Re: Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

#162

Post by disambiguation »

keymone wrote: post #67
coffeeblack wrote: post #3

Good. It’s important to be able to see all sides. Everybody with a brain will know to be very skeptical of any news source directly controlled by a government. Same is true for CGTN and other channels still on YT.

RT reported about ukrainian army crucifying a child in Donbas in 2014 which literally caused some people in Russia to volunteer as fighters and cross the border with intention to kill ukrainians. No, RT should be banned and every person working for it should be jailed for life. Freedom of speech is not freedom of inciting violence and hatred. Edit: here, educate yourself - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucified_boy

This is an instance of bad actors taking advantage of vulnerable / dumb people. Banning RT comes across as whack-a-mole because it will just sprout up elsewhere.

This is unfortunately something that can't be simply banned out of existence.

Re: Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

#163

Post by lm28469 »

lamp987 wrote: post #127
lm28469 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech has never been absolute. RT is a state owned propaganda organ, disinformation doesn't contribute to free speech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

"as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise." this still applies. RT readers arent shooting you. funny how the paradox of tolerance is thrown around most by the people who understand it the least.

> as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion

I mean, we obviously can't. Who's going to make them provide balanced news ? no one since they're literally part of the Russian government. You can't "counter them by rational argument" if these arguments never reach the target

What about islamist news ? Why don't we broadcast that freely ? Can't you provide rational arguments against that ? What about nazis, why are they banned in Germany ? Are you afraid of not having rational arguments ?

> funny how the paradox of tolerance is thrown around most by the people who understand it the least.

Well, I can say the same about freedom of speech...

Re: Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

#164

Post by keymone »

mariusor wrote: post #159
keymone wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> without allowing enemy propaganda to poison gullible part of population uncontested With all due respect but this paternalistic approach to what people should and shouldn't be allowed in knowing is a despicable point of view. Why do you think that you personally, or anyone can be sufficiently impartial to decide what's allowed?

this virtue signaling doesn't apply to times of war. call me despicable all you want, but allowing enemy in your infospace unchecked is plain dumb.

Re: Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

#165

Post by lm28469 »

Gareth321 wrote: post #150
lm28469 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech has never been absolute. RT is a state owned propaganda organ, disinformation doesn't contribute to free speech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

I did not argue that free speech is absolute. Merely that we should be free to try to convince each other of our premise. Even if you really, really, really don't like the other guy. Especially then. I caution you to so casually frame RT as an example of the paradox of tolerance. The byline makes it clear that this paradox was created and applied to situations where the tolerated eventually seized authoritarian power…

> Russia, has no hope of invading the U.S. and seizing this power.

Funny that you say that knowing the role of Russian propaganda during your elections but ok

Re: Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

#166

Post by disambiguation »

jbverschoor wrote: post #2

Good. It's insane that the west is calling out censorship from Russia, but is doing the exact same thing itself.

It's not really insane, it's a difficult dilemma.

To play devils advocate, why should we give our enemies the same rights as our neighbors? Both cohorts are not held accountable in the same ways, nor can we expect our enemies to reciprocate the same good faith.

I think in principle free speech is good, but RT news - and any and all messaging coming out of Russia - should be classified as such. If said propaganda is disguised as genuine sentiment on social media then that's bad for free speech.

Re: Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

#167

Post by mariusor »

Raed667 wrote: post #34
coffeeblack wrote: post #3

Good. It’s important to be able to see all sides. Everybody with a brain will know to be very skeptical of any news source directly controlled by a government. Same is true for CGTN and other channels still on YT.

I don't see how exposing a vulnerable audience to distilled pure propaganda is actually a good thing.

But the paradox is that everyone is part of some kind of "vulnerable audience".

Maybe you like to consider yourself superior to the people who would lead credence to what RT writes, but in my opinion there's nobody immune to some kind of propaganda machine. Maybe something more insidious is required for you or me, but in the end it's hubris to consider yourself invulnerable.

Re: Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

#168

Post by yucky »

keymone wrote: post #139
pydry wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coz it was an honest question. I was curious about whether you would genuinely like to see every CNN employee jailed for life. You answered clearly and in the affirmative. I dont agree with your answer and I dont find it to be consistent with a belief in free speech but it is consistent with what you previously said.

If CNN participated in a blatant propaganda - i would want to hold them accountable. I don't believe they did during Iraq war, primarily because CNN is not government owned media and they don't know what is true or not. You can blame them for not verifying stories (and there should be responsibility for that as well), but RT absolutely knows what things they report are propaganda lies and what aren't.

>primarily because CNN is not government owned media

Depends on how much stock you put in Operation Mockingbird.[1] Many journalists in mainstream media absolutely carry water for the government. And it's not just CNN either, it's Fox News, NY Times, Washington Post etc.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

Re: Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

#169

Post by yucky »

keymone wrote: post #103
shabier wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So North Korea is doing good then

sure, from their perspective they are. but they are a tyrannical dictatorship - we know that. don't we? do you? just checking, because, you know...

Yes, they are a one party state, whereas we have two parties to choose from. Our guys can be trusted of course.

Re: Russian news channel RT to broadcast on Rumble after Big Tech curbs

#170

Post by mariusor »

keymone wrote: post #164
mariusor wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without allowing enemy propaganda to poison gullible part of population uncontested With all due respect but this paternalistic approach to what people should and shouldn't be allowed in knowing is a despicable point of view. Why do you think that you personally, or anyone can be sufficiently impartial to decide what's allowed?

this virtue signaling doesn't apply to times of war. call me despicable all you want, but allowing enemy in your infospace unchecked is plain dumb.

I hate to be the cynical arm chair commenter but you have to understand that most of the world is not at war with Russia at the moment.

I can understand if the Ukrainian government wants their "airwaves" clear of russian propaganda, but asking the whole world to censor them brings no benefit in my opinion. More so, Ukrainians probably can tell from their own experiences how much bullshit there's on RT, so it serves no actual purpose to do so even for them.

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