Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

thetimes.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 301 posts

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#161

Post by phs318u »

natechols wrote: post #37
echelon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely. I'm a liberal and would like to point out that fellow liberals say the same about conservatives. We're wasting energy and making enemies fighting a narrative warfare, and it's frankly very stupid. Jail the their protestors, but not our own. Deplatform their voice…

Nearly all of recorded human history has been rule by gangsters - the liberal democracies of the rich world are an aberration, not the norm. I think about this almost daily and it terrifies me.

Yes! I often wonder whether, in the far future, there will even be historians that know that for a brief moment in time - a couple of centuries - a historical blip - there was a significant chunk of the world where the masses could educate themselves and rise above their origins, without fear of reprisal from the state.

What I fear most is a return to the historical mean - where the vast majority are mere peasants. Ignorant, and systematically oppressed, restrained, and exploited.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#163

Post by kemitchell »

ajross wrote: post #104
pessimizer wrote: post #94

What are the odds the same law will spring up in the US, but be good when we do it?

Almost certain that I read somewhere that Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press.

The constitution of the Russian Federation guarantees freedom of speech and prohibits censorship. I seem to recall the Soviet Union had a pretty spiffy constitution, too. The United States certainly did, during the Palmer Raids, during McCarthyism.

Constitutions alone do nothing. If we're not on guard, collectively, we could easily end up without freedom of speech and press in practice.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#164

Post by LegitShady »

jgwil2 wrote: post #66
dev_by_day wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of equivalence actually. Democrats encourage anarchist militias who openly advocate for violence and arson, try to de-legitimize election results through "Russia-Gate" conspiracies, openly cheered on the fire bombing and attacking of police officers and government buildings(court houses), spread misinformation about the Kyle Rittenhouse despite all expert legal analysis saying they were misinformed.

> try to de-legitimize election results through "Russia-Gate" conspiracies US intelligence confirmed that Russia tried to swing an election, so this isn't a "conspiracy." As for the rest of your points, those positions were never embraced by mainstream Democrats.

Contrast with the next presidential election, which also had Russian interference, but questioning the results of make you a conspiracy theorist.

The Democrats have the election as either a sham or the most secure election ever based on if their side won.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#165

Post by mensetmanusman »

ajford wrote: post #85
stronglikedan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> racism, for gender equality, LGBT rights The thing is, those are all non-issues now, and have been for a while. The reason the MSM is known as fake news in the US, is that they keep trying to push these as current issues, even though they've been settled.

That's a truck-load of bullshit. Texas Gov. Abbot is pushing an anti-LGBTQ+ agenda in the open. He and his pals are flat-out pushing anti-trans agendas that accuse parents of children seeking gender-affirming treatment of child abuse. The Texas right-leaning lege just got through passing a bill that was designed to be hard to assail in the courts that hands out money for turning in anyone who assist someone in seekin…

In the Context of politics being preference:

“ He and his pals are flat-out pushing anti-trans agendas that accuse parents of children seeking gender-affirming treatment of child abuse.”

Isn’t this, by definition, a very debatable topic with pros and cons that have to be weighed. Where one comes down, I.e. their preference for policy on this, will be informed by their background and biases.

E.g. it isn’t entirely obvious that we should give minors, who legally can not consent to many activities, access to ethically untestable non-reversible treatments.

These issues are actually the purpose of politics. E.g. it is a feature of the system that there is debate on implementing the preferences of a democracy.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#166

Post by LegitShady »

cabalamat wrote: post #34
echelon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely. I'm a liberal and would like to point out that fellow liberals say the same about conservatives. We're wasting energy and making enemies fighting a narrative warfare, and it's frankly very stupid. Jail the their protestors, but not our own. Deplatform their voice…

I agree. The US culture war helps dictators like Putin and Xi.

tnat doesnt solve the problems it just makes the stakes higher.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#167

Post by shagmin »

EtherTyper wrote: post #46
pavlov wrote: post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

Or for a more concrete example, look at how both Republicans and Democrats are treating Julian Assange. Investigative journalism and whistleblowing are under attack by all political factions and by the justice system, today. We cannot treat anti-free-press authoritarianism in the West as an "early stage" or tomorrow's problem.

Chelsea Manning may be a better comparison since the US actually sentenced her, but even then that was about a leak with classified information rather than just punishing the press for being critical of the government. And she was arrested and served time (7 years?) and then got out, while coming out as transgendered (imagine going through that in Russian prison). It's not ideal, but it could be taken as an example of how much better it is in the US also.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#168

Post by LegitShady »

prox wrote: post #75
pavlov wrote: post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

I found this article very enlightening : https://www.csis.org/features/kremlin-playbook-3 From the center of strategic and international studies. It describes how the same ideology (white male christian) worldview is connected to Putin and Trump, and how the West is viewed as decadent through the moral lens of the fundamentalist churches in both the US and the Russian orthodox church.

white male christian is not an ideology. The first is a skin color, the second is a gender, the third is a religion. Pretending that you throw those three things together creates some coherent and common ideology is not logical thought

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#169

Post by BitwiseFool »

pavlov wrote: post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

"Fake News" comes in many forms. Hyperbole and playing fast and loose with words like "waged a war" plays into this. The media has NEVER been particularly friendly to the President. Even George Washington himself lamented how the press was slandering his administration with falsehoods.

What did this war look like? What actions did the government actually take to fight journalists covering POTUS unfavorably? Because I just remember an incredible amount of pearl clutching by journalists about how dangerous it is to say bad things about the press and how democracy would die in darkness if their credibility was questioned. It never actually stopped them from continuing act the same way.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#170

Post by ejb999 »

noja wrote: post #153
moate wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avowed leftist here: Let's just agree that both the Dems and Repubs ban/seek to stifle opinions they don't agree with. Someone wants to ban Maus, someone else wants to ban Joe Rogan. Both parties want power at the expense of "freedom". Censorship is part of existing as part of a society though. There are people who seek to actively hurt others using words and media, and the whole idea of a state is to (pretend?) to a…

> Avowed leftist here: Let's just agree that both the Dems and Repubs ban/seek to stifle opinions they don't agree with. Someone wants to ban Maus, someone else wants to ban Joe Rogan. What kind of an argument is this? The only common thread between the two is the word "banning". Banning Joe Rogan is because he spreads misinformation about vaccines. He is causing lots of people to die, and the pandemic is longer beca…

>>How can you equate banning Maus with banning Joe Rogan? The only common thread between the two is the word "banning".

Because free speech is free speech, whether you agree with what was said or not.

Post reply on HN