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Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

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Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#161

Post by pyuser583 »

endisneigh wrote: post #23

the problem is and always has been that the particular school you attend has too much weight, irrespective of ability or aptitude. if college admissions were high school blind then this wouldn't even matter to begin with. simply being great, regardless of which school you attend would be enough. re: TJH admissions: > In 2020, during the summer after George Floyd’s death, the Virginia state government announced that i…

It ignores extra-curricular activities, which are one of the best indicators of success in college.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#162

Post by civilized »

markdown wrote: post #120
friedman23 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's good for society I feel like you've taken this position as a fact without having any evidence supporting it.

[flagged]

I'm guessing you live in Malaysia.

Well, one difference between America and Malaysia is that majorities of every American racial group oppose racial preferences [1]. There is support for affirmative action in the sense of removing barriers and leveling playing fields, but racial preferences are quite unpopular. Even supermajorities of Democrats oppose them. They are only popular among Democratic elites.

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/25/most-americ...

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#163

Post by giveyouareply »

BadCookie wrote: post #133
tyjen wrote: post #80

I'm a confused by the equity claim to justify discriminatory behavior with what seems like heavy emphasis on race. It seems difficult to achieve equity without transparent, and standardized methods emphasizing a holistic assessment covering visible and invisible, immutable and mutable characteristics--each of which impact individual outcomes. I understand that tackling overrepresentation and underrepresentation is im…

It would be more fair to create admission quotas based on family economic status, but I can’t imagine that would ever be put into practice because it would hurt the wealthy too much. The universities wouldn’t like the financial impact either. But if true equality of opportunity were the goal, then that’s how you’d need to do it I think.

It can be gamed.

A long while back at University, I noticed very wealthy students on student income schemes that were only meant to be accessed by students whose parents qualified as low income status. The bar to qualify was quite difficult, if you had one parent employed in a job then it was unlikely you would qualify.

I asked how they could qualify, while almost everyone had to work part time jobs to cover costs.

It turns out their parents paid themselves a very low salary in order to qualify.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#164

Post by CorrectHorseBat »

markdown wrote: post #125
ipnon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is there is no difference between Harvard's current admissions policy and telling the marginalized Asian students, "great application, but we don't accept your kind here anymore." It's not right when it happens to Asians, it's not right when it happens to Blacks, it's not right when it happens to anybody.

Quoted post unavailable.

Some positive discrimination can somtimes be beneficial, but doing it based on racial group is just asking for problems.

How does it even work practically? What stops an Asian American from saying they are African American?

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#165

Post by whatshisface »

ipnon wrote: post #100

It's discrimination any way you slice it. You can't lower the bar for one person without raising it for another so long as the class sizes remain the same. If elite universities are about providing education (a valid point of critical contention), then systematically barring Asians from entry is the same class of injustice litigated in Brown v. Board of Education. It's not enough to say you can learn calculus just as…

We think universities are trying to solve the trolley problem of whether egalitarianism means letting people rise as high as they can or if it means compensating for all the circumstances of their birth, but they're probably solving the problem of how to admit the student with the highest donation expected value first, then the student with the second highest, then the third...

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#166

Post by ww520 »

j7ake wrote: post #109

Would it be more fair to weight applicants by household income rather than race? For example, given two equally strong applicants, but one is from upper class and the other lower class, it seems clear that the lower class applicant is stronger, because they were able to achieve similarly with fewer resources.

Getting rid of the legacy admission system would help equality. Legacy admission is for preserving the generational class structure and keeping the disadvantaged down.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#167

Post by giveyouareply »

xvector wrote: post #123
markdown wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Racism is not good for society. You cannot justify holding Asian-Americans to a higher level because "they can handle it." Asians are part of society too, and yet Asian-American children have dramatically different and more stressful childhoods than their counterparts - a constant churn of studying, stress, and pressure, compared to the relatively carefree childhoods of their peers. It disgusts me that you can say "t…

On the flip side, the selection process (I dont think I'd call it racism).

Special admission can benefit marginalized low income communities if one of their students gets a step up. For example, a student of low socioeconomic status (or from under representative race). Let's say they qualify for a special admission. They train hard for years to become a doctor. It may be advantageous to have a doctor that can look back at where they grew up, hopefully putting resources in future to help others in their community.

Not only that, those marginalized communities can lose trust in the system, so seeing people who do 'make it' can be a motivator for others.

I do understand the predicament though. It's a shame we can't increase the number of spaces available. At some point there has to be a cut off. a hard decision to make.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#169

Post by esyir »

goodoldneon wrote: post #22
TeeMassive wrote: post #2

What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

The goal isn't to disadvantage Asians in particular. It's about balancing demographics by giving advantages to under-represented groups, which inherently means giving disadvantages to over-represented groups. Affirmative action is messy because it's getting in the middle of zero sum games (e.g. college admissions and hiring). But diversity is a significant problem in many parts of American society, and just about eve…

Then try and make the AA group fundamentally stronger to get better qualifications, rather than lowering the bar for them. Giving "unfair" advantages there will only bring racial tension.

People can bring up "systemic discrimination", but using Affirmative Action as the cudgel to solve this isn't fixing the issue, it's a stopgap that will probably make it worse.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#170

Post by ww520 »

carrionpigeon wrote: post #159
j7ake wrote: post #109

Would it be more fair to weight applicants by household income rather than race? For example, given two equally strong applicants, but one is from upper class and the other lower class, it seems clear that the lower class applicant is stronger, because they were able to achieve similarly with fewer resources.

When I was in high school, one student's parents (one doctor and one lawyer --- very financially well-off) took off work for one year just so they could claim having no income on the FAFSA documentation. She got accepted everywhere , winning across the places she applied over $300,000 in scholarships. The upper-middle class and wealthy can easily game this. Edit: I should also add that the student and both parents we…

Make it require 5 years tax returns.
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