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World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

reuters.com

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Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#161

Post by numpad0 »

Azek wrote: post #149
crudolph wrote: post #129

Honestly we need to quit pretending that we, as humans, are something special as compared to other omnivorous or carnivorous mammals. OK we have more gray matter comparatively but really that means nothing. Some cultures eat octopus, some eat dogs, some eat cats, some eat cows, and of course some eat humans. And some eat vegetation. Do you honestly think those cultures sit back and question what they are doing and if…

Is your point that the majority of people don't consider their own actions as moral agents so we shouldn't either? If you're browsing this website from a phone or computer you are beyond the clamber of mere survival. You have time for ethical reflection.

I think his claims is more like:

a) eating animals is justified because we are omnivorous/carnivorous by nature, and,

b) who fucking cares anyway.

I don’t think it is “we don’t need ethics out there” as some might frame it.

I’d say we all have this collective naive ethics that killing sentient animals leaves bad tastes in the mouth, and I’d love not having to feel or think about it, but that cannot immediately mean it is, like, can be proven logically wrong.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#162

Post by preommr »

KerryJones wrote: post #7

I've had several people in my life tell me after more intense studies of octopi they refuse to eat them. While I've seen a couple of documentaries on the subject, I won't profess to know as much, but the essential argument has been that they're extremely intelligent, emotional animals. It's akin to eating a dog or cat (which might be acceptable in some parts of the world, but pretty shunned in the west). It's convinc…

> It's akin to eating a dog or cat (which might be acceptable in some parts of the world, but pretty shunned in the west).

Why the tangent on eating dogs/cats when pigs are just as smart but widely consumed throught the western world?

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#163

Post by friedturkey »

deutschewelle wrote: post #125
friedturkey wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's with your backhanded comments lol People have been getting informed through documentaries for decades. People have been getting informed through books for millennia. People have been sharing experiences through discussion before recorded history. People share knowledge through countless mediums and that's how we learn and grow. Saying this is dystopian is goofy and makes no sense. Chill out, lad.

Quoted post unavailable.

This sounds like some freshman "free thinker" stuff.

Your thoughts aren't anything original. Everything you think is a result of the input you've accepted. One day you'll grow up and cringe about this goofy hill you've chosen to die on. Or you'll continue aging and mock people for being "stupid enough" to read books and not getting in touch with their chakras.

Besides, why should I let my opinion be swayed by an internet comment? A rational thinker knows internet comments from non-Netflix stock holders are of lower value than documentaries when it comes to being informed. :)

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#164

Post by carbocation »

deutschewelle wrote: post #125
friedturkey wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's with your backhanded comments lol People have been getting informed through documentaries for decades. People have been getting informed through books for millennia. People have been sharing experiences through discussion before recorded history. People share knowledge through countless mediums and that's how we learn and grow. Saying this is dystopian is goofy and makes no sense. Chill out, lad.

Quoted post unavailable.

Do we all come to the truth about fissile material by tickling the dragon ourselves?

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#165

Post by Joakal »

KerryJones wrote: post #7

I've had several people in my life tell me after more intense studies of octopi they refuse to eat them. While I've seen a couple of documentaries on the subject, I won't profess to know as much, but the essential argument has been that they're extremely intelligent, emotional animals. It's akin to eating a dog or cat (which might be acceptable in some parts of the world, but pretty shunned in the west). It's convinc…

Here's a quicker soft start, a woman is best friends with an octopus (about 4 minutes) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1twqEn8iHsk

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#166

Post by chrisweekly »

sweetheart wrote: post #111
adolph wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Temple Grandin’s work to reduce animal distress is very important. Grandin also developed an objective, numerical scoring system for assessing animal welfare at slaughtering plants. The use of this scoring system resulted in significant improvements in animal stunning and handling during slaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin Edit for quote format

That is some absolutely twisted shit.

It's also true and important (at least in the context of this whole HN discussion).

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#167

Post by glenngillen »

preommr wrote: post #162
KerryJones wrote: post #7

I've had several people in my life tell me after more intense studies of octopi they refuse to eat them. While I've seen a couple of documentaries on the subject, I won't profess to know as much, but the essential argument has been that they're extremely intelligent, emotional animals. It's akin to eating a dog or cat (which might be acceptable in some parts of the world, but pretty shunned in the west). It's convinc…

> It's akin to eating a dog or cat (which might be acceptable in some parts of the world, but pretty shunned in the west). Why the tangent on eating dogs/cats when pigs are just as smart but widely consumed throught the western world?

It’s not a tangent, you’re making the same point. Cultural norms skew what we will eat. If you think about it logically though the rationale for not eating cats & dogs applies equally to octopuses… and pigs. I don’t think OP was intending to give an exhaustive list.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#168

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

AngryData wrote: post #116

To me the most important questions are, does living a farm style life cause them undue distress and harm, and will they realize they are on a farm instead of just some weird octopus community. For example, the cows I own I can keep on my land and they are perfectly content to munch grass around the different pastures throughout the year as they are rotated, and have free clean shelter in the barn and free hay in the…

We will look back with astonishment at the sheer madness of killing animals and eating them.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#169

Post by codeisawesome »

AngryData wrote: post #116

To me the most important questions are, does living a farm style life cause them undue distress and harm, and will they realize they are on a farm instead of just some weird octopus community. For example, the cows I own I can keep on my land and they are perfectly content to munch grass around the different pastures throughout the year as they are rotated, and have free clean shelter in the barn and free hay in the…

Is it really ‘free clean shelter’ and ‘free hay’ if, in exchange, their flesh is being harvested at some point? I applaud your efforts for humane animal consumption and I’m shamefully nowhere near your commitment. But I just took issue with the small problem in the mental model.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#170

Post by glenngillen »

nefitty wrote: post #120
hashimotonomora wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cows (actually their genes) have been evolutionarily successful by paradoxically allowing themselves to be slaughtered and eaten by humans.

"Allow" implies some sort of consent. I understand that you mean in an evolutionary sense, but it's clear that most living beings are averse to dying, even when possessing the most biologically primitive nervous systems. I prefer to head off any arguments in bad faith, "well, why don't all the cows just run away?" Some people are very comfortable resorting to satirical absurdity when discussing suffering, as evidence…

Genuine question and not an attempt to bait you, but curious why the latter is a ridiculous argument? I’ve not heard that argument, but I have seen the occasional piece of research pop up to suggest there’s more complicated communication or social structures in plants. Particularly fungi. I’ve no idea how true any of it is and what why more may learn about that in the coming decades. So while I personally don’t have evidence or believe it to be true, I couldn’t with absolute conviction rule it out either.
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