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Reddit can't build a better search engine

ruky.me

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Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#161

Post by zozbot234 »

Traster wrote: post #159

I completely disagree with some of the points here. There seems to be this weird assumption from people that Reddit is some organic source of information that hasn't been polluted by advertisers and SEO. But the truth is that it absolutely has, the difference is that the way you game the system is different. Google is this crazy algorithm and no one really knows how it works, so people just throw shit at it. Keyword…

> What you do get though, is highly unreliable information about anything that could be monetized.

So it's just like the rest of the Internet. And at least in Reddit (or, more to the point, the newer federated lookalikes - Reddit is dying and losing its highest value and most committed users) you can go look for the tiny niche communities focused around that interest, where users will be better focused on policing insincere content.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#162

Post by jsymolon »

lentil_soup wrote: post #150
Decabytes wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. I don't get why people expect that they should pay nothing to watch their favorite content creators. Sure you bought an LTT water bottle, but make no mistake Google is a business, YouTube is a business and they are not providing these videos out of the goodness of their heart. If YouTube ever doesn't make sense (algorithmically, financially, or through whatever metric Google decides is important) Google wi…

I don't think people expect anything for free but I don't want to pay with getting bombarded with ads. If their business model is not viable then they have to find a new one. Just as we can't expect content for free they can't expect me to sit there and look at adverts out of the goodness of my heart. If at all possible, I will find a way to block ads out of my mind as much as I can.

Cable TV Promises.

Buy our service and get no ads. 5-ish years later, just like OTA.

NY Times ('81) https://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/26/arts/will-cable-tv-be-inv...

Satellite radio, mostly no ads. Tune to the "laugh" channels ... tons of ads.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#165

Post by jstummbillig »

onion2k wrote: post #151
s8s8discourse wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do you expect the producers of the content you consume to continue putting out the content you want to consume if they're unable to monetise that content?

Honestly, that's not my problem. "How do you satisfy your customer's needs while making a profit" is the same problem every other business has. It's up to the content creators to solve it. If they can't, then they go out of business. It's that simple. If you can't make a profit from your content because you're giving it away with blockable ads then you should stop doing that and do something else. If I went to a Ferr…

> It's up to the content creators to solve it. If they can't, then they go out of business. It's that simple.

They are solving it, over and over, for the past 20 years. The way so far is to find new ways to shove ads down enough peoples throats. And the internet can't stop complaining about them doing so, understandably.

> Honestly, that's not my problem.

So, yeah, maybe it kinda is. A state of war is mostly a lose-lose situation.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#166

Post by [deleted] »

onion2k wrote: post #151
s8s8discourse wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do you expect the producers of the content you consume to continue putting out the content you want to consume if they're unable to monetise that content?

Honestly, that's not my problem. "How do you satisfy your customer's needs while making a profit" is the same problem every other business has. It's up to the content creators to solve it. If they can't, then they go out of business. It's that simple. If you can't make a profit from your content because you're giving it away with blockable ads then you should stop doing that and do something else. If I went to a Ferr…

[deleted]

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#167

Post by ColinHayhurst »

sasaf5 wrote: post #128

> I’d still prefer a targeted ad over a random ad that is unrelated to me. No, a million times no. A targeted ad requires my personal information being collected, and the resulting assumption of my needs may be offensive and even dangerous. I prefer a random ad. Or better, a place where I can just search the product I want in detail.

Ads are not the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is tracking.

The internet has not been broken by ads. It’s been broken by data harvesting and monopolies. Contextual ads are no problem IMO, and can sometimes be a helpful (economic) signal. Without ads how can challengers get some awareness?

So yes for targeted ads, but only if it does not require personal data. Contextual ads can be targeted without engaging in use of personal data.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#168

Post by afiori »

Decabytes wrote: post #145
s8s8discourse wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do you expect the producers of the content you consume to continue putting out the content you want to consume if they're unable to monetise that content?

Seriously. I don't get why people expect that they should pay nothing to watch their favorite content creators. Sure you bought an LTT water bottle, but make no mistake Google is a business, YouTube is a business and they are not providing these videos out of the goodness of their heart. If YouTube ever doesn't make sense (algorithmically, financially, or through whatever metric Google decides is important) Google wi…

Personally I don't feel a moral dilemma about not giving revenue to YouTube.

That said, if Person A buys an LTT water bottle and block all ads and Person B watches all ads and never buys anything, then Person B needs to watch thousands of ads to make up the same revenue from that single merchandise purchase.

I agree with Linus that skipping ads is piracy, but if you finance it in better ways should you care?

For reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jUxOnoWsFU

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#169

Post by afiori »

sasaf5 wrote: post #128

> I’d still prefer a targeted ad over a random ad that is unrelated to me. No, a million times no. A targeted ad requires my personal information being collected, and the resulting assumption of my needs may be offensive and even dangerous. I prefer a random ad. Or better, a place where I can just search the product I want in detail.

Personalizing ads per se does not need tracking or profiling. Doing it server-side and checking if the targeting works does.

the Mr Robot scandal for better or worse, was implemented almost like this

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15941302

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#170

Post by onion2k »

jstummbillig wrote: post #165
onion2k wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, that's not my problem. "How do you satisfy your customer's needs while making a profit" is the same problem every other business has. It's up to the content creators to solve it. If they can't, then they go out of business. It's that simple. If you can't make a profit from your content because you're giving it away with blockable ads then you should stop doing that and do something else. If I went to a Ferr…

> It's up to the content creators to solve it. If they can't, then they go out of business. It's that simple. They are solving it, over and over, for the past 20 years. The way so far is to find new ways to shove ads down enough peoples throats. And the internet can't stop complaining about them doing so, understandably. > Honestly, that's not my problem. So, yeah, maybe it kinda is. A state of war is mostly a lose-l…

A state of war is mostly a lose-lose situation.

It's not lose-lose though. The creator loses, but I don't. If I don't care about a specific creator (and I obviously don't if I don't pay them and I block their ads) then I'm only losing access to the content they produce, which I value at essentially zero. So, really, I'm not losing anything. I just move on to the next YouTube video/podcast/whatever.

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