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This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

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Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#161

Post by judge2020 »

huhtenberg wrote: post #33

But, wait! It gets even better [1]: - Cannot also support IAP - Website links are all to a single URL specified in Info.plist with no parameters - Must submit monthly report to Apple listing EVERY external transaction All for measly 27% of the sales proceeds. A total steal. Apple's really jerking on the regulators' chain. I sure hope they continue in the same vein, because the fallout will be spectacular. [1] https:/…

So how much should they charge developers for access to continued iOS improvements and updates? What if they had to pay a license fee for access to each new iOS version's APIs?

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#162

Post by coder543 »

Grustaf wrote: post #146
coder543 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not about money [citation needed] It can be about more than one thing at the same time, but it certainly seems likely to be about the money. Apple wants people to use the App Store on their Mac more. Those apps can be malicious too[0], but you don't see Apple warning you before you download or open them. [0]: one of the first links on google, but this is not an isolated incident: https://appleinsider.com/art…

I mean of course it's indirectly about money, they want people to have a good experience with their Mac so they stay in the ecosystem. But when you sideload an app like that there is no question about losing app store revenue (developers can just notarize their app for free), it's only about the user experience. No doubt on iOS it's about both, but my point is that it's reductive to think it's ONLY about losing app s…

> Especially in the Dutch case, where they won't actually lose any revenue, since they're charging 27% anyway.

I believe Apple is being forward-looking here. They know such a ridiculous 27% policy is unlikely to be tolerated by the regulators, since it defeats the entire purpose, so they're planning for a future where they're forced to lower that. They want the option to be presented to consumers as being scarier than it actually is and to include as much friction as legally possible, so that developers will be more likely to continue to use IAPs even when they could use something else.

I've heard that Apple isn't allowing consumers any choice in the matter either -- developers can't simultaneously offer both their own payment method and IAPs[0] (at upwards of a ~50% higher price, to cover the ~30% that would have to go to Apple for the IAP option, if the percentage for out-of-band payments ever drops from 27%). Certainly, it would "make Apple look bad" to see the IAP at a much higher price just because of Apple's commission.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=huhtenberg

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#163

Post by danhab99 »

makerofthings wrote: post #77
drcongo wrote: post #6

I'm sure I'm in a minority here, but I think this is good . As a consumer, I want to be warned if there's something that's going to deviate from my system's norms, especially if it could take money from me.

I think this is great, too. I just wish all the folk on hackernews that want to trash what apple have built would just go buy an Android phone and leave it alone. If you don’t like the AppStore, don’t buy an iPhone.

This kind of thinking isn't helpful. The reason this is a massive problem for app companies is because 90% of users aren't computer litterate and don't read. They expect their devices to just work with no effort (we at hn can't relate). We should all be mad at apple because we as devs can't control the devices default settings like Apple can. And that's how their winning... They're basically pulling an Amazon basics or a Costco's Kirkland.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#164

Post by krageon »

tjpnz wrote: post #145
disgu wrote: post #132

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm at a point where I'll simply not purchase any service if I cannot use the in app form of payment. I'm just done with everything else. If I miss out on something then so be it. Have you ever bought an Adobe subscription, ever tried to cancel a New York Times subscription? Or Audible where they say "Well, you can cancel but then we'll also take the tokens you've already paid fo…

You can get similar functionality to what Apple is offering through a disposable credit card (privacy.com and alike). Worst case you can take the matter up with your credit card company. How many times in a year do you cancel something?

If you do this, your account will be sent to collections (because yes, you still have a payment obligation if you do not cancel). Those are people whose job it is to be so unpleasant to you you'd rather pay them and not eat, so this is terrible advice.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#165

Post by scarface74 »

rpadovani wrote: post #140
scarface74 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netherlands population is a little more than half of Texas’s population. Apple could completely pull out of the Netherlands and wouldn’t even feel the affect.

Except they cannot. If you have an EU point of sale, you cannot deny service to any EU citizen based on nationality. So, they can stop _selling_ in the Netherlands, but given how close is any Dutch to another EU state, I don't see it as a problem for purchasing a phone. Apple will sustain that, given the phone wasn't bought in the Netherlands, they are not subject to their laws. Good luck with that.

How do you punish a company because people bought a product that wasn’t for sale in your country?

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#166

Post by Aldo_MX »

disgu wrote: post #132

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm at a point where I'll simply not purchase any service if I cannot use the in app form of payment. I'm just done with everything else. If I miss out on something then so be it. Have you ever bought an Adobe subscription, ever tried to cancel a New York Times subscription? Or Audible where they say "Well, you can cancel but then we'll also take the tokens you've already paid fo…

I agree 100% with you, but here's the thing:

That peace of mind has a price.

As long as Apple lets me charge you twice the price I'll play by their IAP rules.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#167

Post by JimDabell »

jamil7 wrote: post #37
huhtenberg wrote: post #33

But, wait! It gets even better [1]: - Cannot also support IAP - Website links are all to a single URL specified in Info.plist with no parameters - Must submit monthly report to Apple listing EVERY external transaction All for measly 27% of the sales proceeds. A total steal. Apple's really jerking on the regulators' chain. I sure hope they continue in the same vein, because the fallout will be spectacular. [1] https:/…

They also don't provide a view controller or something you can present to display the warning as they do with other things like this, you have to build the view yourself according to their silly specs... Phil Schiller needs to go.

That’s totally reasonable.

A new view controller would require a new version of iOS to provide that view controller, which would lock out all the people on older versions of iOS from the alternative payment methods.

Any iOS developer can put together a screen like that in no time, it’s not a meaningful hurdle and it means more people can get the alternative payment method.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#168

Post by acd10j »

I do not want Apple to enable side loading, as it will enable people like employers, Government shady companies to build apps and mandate it to install for accessing some very important functionality, also will trigger, carriers provided phones to have non app store crap installed like in Android phones. At the same time i think Apple is sabotaging all of us by insisting on getting this steep 30% cut. As no government will allow such a huge additional tax on its companies apart from its national tax in long run. This is becoming a lose-lose situation for us.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#169

Post by bogwog »

alistairSH wrote: post #68

Meh, mixed feelings about this. I like Apple's payment system. It works, it's consistent, I can cancel things from a single menu. There are real benefits to me, the consumer, to using Apple's system. On the flip side, other payment systems can be a hodgepodge of unsecured, user hostile (cancellations), and inconsistent. There can be real negatives to using other systems. More so some systems that don't have a consist…

If you like Apple’s payment system, then you can choose to not use an app with a third party system. That’s your choice as a consumer, and if Apple’s service really is superior, then it will win on it’s own merits.

But Apple doesn’t want to compete. Even if their service is better and they’re confident that users will choose them over third parties, they know that allowing competition will force them to lower their obscene fees in the long term. Market forces do that in a competitive market.

That’s all there is to it. It has absolutely nothing to do with user security or privacy. Apple isn’t going to sit idly by while regulators make decisions that threaten their long term profits. They’re going to fight it for as long as they possibly can. Anything less would be laziness on the part of their executive team.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#170

Post by jeroenhd »

btmiller wrote: post #155
jeroenhd wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, you don't _have_ to buy things through a third party and you don't _have_ to buy anything if you don't like the payment processor. The market will correct itself when shitty applications with shitty UX don't get any sales, unless it turns most customers don't care and people like you are the minority. In a perfect world, there'd be a "pay with Apple Pay (€2,60)" button right next to the "pay with iDeal…

> The market will correct itself when shitty applications with shitty UX don't get any sales I think your assumption is too optimistic. The only way the market would correct itself in this situation is toward user hostility with easy signups but hard cancellations (e.g. New York Times). So yes there will be some market correction, but only in ways that increase sales at the cost of user tolerance.

The current situation only applies to the Netherlands where the law says that you have to be able to cancel a service online if you subscribed online (no phone calls/letters/telegrams/etc. can be required for cancellation) so I doubt that would be the case here.

That said, I don't think Apple should be the one to fix this system. The government should prevent such harmful behaviour through legislation rather than relying on private parties.

Besides, users can always choose not to pay for items in their apps if they can't use their preferred payment processor. People living in places where this predatory behaviour is still legal can choose not to pay through payment providers that don't allow them to easily cancel for the extra fees those providers (like Apple) charge.

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