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The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

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Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#161

Post by pySSK »

lelandfe wrote: post #77
chrisjc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick note to those that were potentially triggered when they read "dubstep"... Early dubstep was based on two-step and garage music, while at the same time heavily based on dub and reggae. Digital Mystikz - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9H3i0T1iN4 Spaceape - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyRjyKj05I Goth Trad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12dJbE_xxw Listen to some of the early dubstep and you'll start to u…

Nice to see some heads on HN! Great list, and RIP The Spaceape. You can find proper sound system culture in the states, though not much is happening since COVID. Tsunami Bass has an enormous PA and Reconstrvct hopefully will be back one day. Analog in Brooklyn did have a whopping home built system but it was sold off and the club is under new management these days. Here's a glimpse into what this sort of stuff is lik…

> Nice to see some heads on HN! Great list, and RIP The Spaceape.

Can't believe my eyes I'm seeing this on HN. You can get the same experience at home with a SubPac. I'm not exaggerating!

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#162

Post by JohnBooty »

ahartmetz wrote: post #160
JohnBooty wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, just to make sure we're on the same page about maybe one single thing, I don't think anybody thinks the subject of the linked article is cultural appropriation. I sure don't. Ultimately everything is somewhat of consensus in society, right? I mean, even near-universal truths like "murder is generally bad" or "helping your neighbors is good" are just sort of things most societies kind of agree on. Someti…

> But a lot of people from group ABC feel like it's pretty crappy for me to use XYZ. Let's assume you had chosen a better example, such as abusing a religious symbol as the logo of a nightclub... But there is also a whole lot of mindless calling-out going on regarding cultural appropriation. Most uses of imported cultural material are not meant to denigrate or minimize and don't do so by accident. "Stealing" culture…

    But there is also a whole lot of mindless calling-out 
    going on regarding cultural appropriation
Absolutely agreed, although "some people are wrong about ___" doesn't automatically invalidate _____.

I mean, what do you want to hear? Literally anything you want to do with anybody else's culture is okay and you don't even have to think about it because it's literally impossible for it to be anything but okay?

There is a middle ground in which we agree that hey, some things are okay and some are better avoided.

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#164

Post by JohnBooty »

asdff wrote: post #118
elefanten wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that nuance was originally intended, but look around and you will find plenty of claims that wearing dreadlocks, rapping or making sushi at home are examples of cultural appropriation, if done by the wrong person. Actually, that’s a good gut check to test whether emancipatory movements have lost their plot: how often do their prescriptions hinge on identity.

It's gotten to the point where people are even criticized for tanning too much beyond what is supposedly acceptable for their identity.

That's a pretty fringe outlook. A good piece of advice would be:

Every belief, good or bad, has a lunatic fringe that takes that belief to some stupid extreme.

If we judge every belief by its most deluded lunatic fringe, then we would be forced to conclude that there are literally zero beliefs or ideas worth subscribing to. The lunatic fringe is always there, and it is always scary and/or really, really dumb.

Learn to recognize the fringe.

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#165

Post by bobsil1 »

zuminator wrote: post #25

This is a beautiful example of why people shouldn't be too quick to tag cultural borrowings as "appropriation." They often result in a back-and-forth cross-pollination that bears novel hybrid fruit we can all enjoy.

All culture is mongrel.

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#166

Post by JohnBooty »

ericb wrote: post #99
JohnBooty wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree completely, though, I also don't feel like this sort of (awesome) thing is what anybody is talking about when they discuss cultural appropriation! Cross-pollination like this is, I dare say, universally loved and recognized as vital. Generally when people speak of "cultural appropriation" it's a situation where you have a majority and/or oppressing group capitalizing on the culture of a minority and/or oppresse…

> and a prison guard stealing their music That's a pretty tortured metaphor. Would it be morally ok for the prisoners to steal the guard's music? What if cultural borrowing is the societal precursor to acceptance and integration?

    That's a pretty tortured metaphor.
All analogies are imperfect by definition. Hopefully you understood the concept: there's a difference between the collaboration between equals and theft by oppressor. I wouldn't think that's too controversial.

    Would it be morally ok for the prisoners to steal the guard's music?
No, not really.

    What if cultural borrowing is the societal 
    precursor to acceptance and integration?
Yeah, I think it often is! It's probably a good thing more often than not.

I hope you are not misunderstanding the concept of cultural appropriation to mean that you should literally never collaborate with or incorporate outside influences? If so then, well, good news - it's not that.

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#167

Post by anon7725 »

JohnBooty wrote: post #154
JohnBooty wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, just to make sure we're on the same page about maybe one single thing, I don't think anybody thinks the subject of the linked article is cultural appropriation. I sure don't. Ultimately everything is somewhat of consensus in society, right? I mean, even near-universal truths like "murder is generally bad" or "helping your neighbors is good" are just sort of things most societies kind of agree on. Someti…

Or to give maybe a more direct example: a friend of mine (who is not Native American) used to make those “dream catcher” wall hangings. Obviously she meant no harm and saw it as a tribute; a sign of appreciation. A few people told her why it was not cool. She didn’t really understand/agree. But it’s also like: did she really need to make dream catchers? So, she relented, and just made different crafts. Moral being: s…

> a friend of mine (who is not Native American) used to make those “dream catcher” wall hangings.

> A few people told her why it was not cool.

Were those people Native American?

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#168

Post by JohnBooty »

anon7725 wrote: post #167
JohnBooty wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or to give maybe a more direct example: a friend of mine (who is not Native American) used to make those “dream catcher” wall hangings. Obviously she meant no harm and saw it as a tribute; a sign of appreciation. A few people told her why it was not cool. She didn’t really understand/agree. But it’s also like: did she really need to make dream catchers? So, she relented, and just made different crafts. Moral being: s…

> a friend of mine (who is not Native American) used to make those “dream catcher” wall hangings. > A few people told her why it was not cool. Were those people Native American?

I think it's not super relevant but: my understanding is that they were of partial Native American descent.

Reason why I say it's not super relevant in this particular case? As a white person, it would be ridiculous for me to attempt to speak for Native Americans or any other group. But it would be perfectly OK for me to say e.g. "hey, I think a lot of Native Americans aren't cool with white people making 'dream catchers' -- maybe look into that? Also here are some links to Native Americans talking about it?"

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#169

Post by skydhash »

npteljes wrote: post #87
grawprog wrote: post #31

I really love the world of reggae and dancehall. The way riddims are covered and updated and repurposed and remade over and over in different styles by different artists. It feels natural and organic. Human creativity building on and growing what came before.

The entirety of the remix culture is just something else. People turning something existing into something else, sometimes completely changing it up. For one I loved Burial's Archangel, for its haunting vocals, only to learn later that it's sampled from a (to me) unremarkable r&b song.

A great example is : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NVUZNsh2E The remix is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGflUbPQfW8

The original is good, but the remix is something else.

Re: The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae

#170

Post by Spastche »

rvense wrote: post #112
dashwehacct wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to tell people that reggae artists (more specifically dub artists) created electronic music. I don’t know if it’s entirely true, but there is some evidence to suggest this.

Well, electronic music in the broad sense is at least thirty-five years older than Sleng Teng. I doubt, say, Schaeffer and Xennakis were very clued in to what was happening in Jamaica. But it's absolute true that you reggae and dub had a profound impact on dance music music in all its forms from the 90's onwards, both culturally and in the production methods and sound. I'm not sure I've ever heard any of the original…

yeah, British punk is heavily influenced by Jamaican music because of this, while similar American music doesn't have that influence at all until much later. Bad Brains being the only real exception I can think of.
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