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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#161

Post by cooperadymas »

I have a smart dishwasher. Anyone who doesn't have one and is bashing them simply hasn't had the pleasure of trying them out. They're pure joy.

My 2 year old loves to help me load the dishes. She complains if I don't let her close the soap container and then press the button to start the machine.

It's never broken dishes on me. Never failed to clean anything. I've never forgotten to start it, or forgotten to add soap. It runs exactly when I want it to.

My dishwasher has 5 buttons on it. I just had to count them. I have only ever pushed 1, the start button. No digital display. No wifi. No broken firmware updates. Simplicity.

So smart a two year old can use it.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#162

Post by tzs »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #8

What reason could a dishwasher have for a firmware update? Did they not test their dishwasher? did they lock away features behind a subscription? Why would it need a security update if it wasn't internet connected?

An update to cope better with people using detergent pods of using the detergent dispenser? This excellent video [1] explains why pods do not work well and also explains a lot about how dishwashers work that I definitely did not know.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#163

Post by hexo »

mywacaday wrote: post #150
fullstop wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dishwasher is from 1992. It's from the era of packet radio and pre-dates WiFi. I can't imagine using some smart phone app to manage a dishwasher.

The electricity and water efficiency are likely terrible compared to a modern machine.

I dont believe it at all.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#164

Post by ballenf »

buro9 wrote: post #77
michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

I would expect them to eventually be pressured into shortening the drying cycle to hit some green goal, making you dry more dishes by hand.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#165

Post by fsflover »

boringg wrote: post #132

Can't wait for the dishwashers to start requiring annual fees so that the software keeps working just like MS Office suite. You know it's coming - thats would be a terrible existence.

https://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/5e8f6e0d3a029...

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#166

Post by Pasorrijer »

fortran77 wrote: post #96
uxp100 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, I have an AC window unit from Miele that is a great piece of hardware. But the app, my god, it's so bad. Every launch of the app requires a log in. Every log in error messages pop up about api endpoint such and such, but it works anyway. If a command fails, which it does half the time, the app gets out of sync with the unit (i.e. app will say fan speed medium, unit will say fan speed low). So I guess it syncs st…

I have a Miele speed oven that arrived with a major defect: Microwave worked, but heat modes didn't. They sent a repair crew and there was a missing wire harness in the circuitry. It never could have worked. My experience with "high end" appliances in general (Bosch, Miele, Wolf, Subzero) is that it's a tax on "rich people". They're not better than top-line LG, etc.

I agree on a lot of them. Miele however, my mother's last Miele dishwasher lasted 22 years and they were still selling spare parts up until the day she replaced it. That's pretty unheard of in today's day and age

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#167

Post by cmsonger »

buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

> on a VLAN with other white goods, outbound connections to certain domains only

...

That probably says what needs to be said about smart appliances. There's a reason that's the right choice. This same reason is the reason smart appliances are a bad idea.

Am curious: When the washer is past security updates, are you going to leave it on the VLAN? Would you do that if the washer had a camera or microphone?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#168

Post by slantyyz »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #66
da_chicken wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? The purpose of IOT is pretty clear, although it is also pretty broad. It's a win-win for the manufacturer, but probably a ticking time bomb for the customer. The Good: 1. Reduce production costs by converting electronic control to digital control with COTS chips. 2. Reduce development costs by reducing the cost of correcting bug-free software. The system requir…

You missed one of the Bad: * Potential for wifi chipsets to collect other data from your network and send to anywhere. If you are going to do IoT or have wifi enabled appliances, setup a separate network for them to operate on. I find it easier to just not have them, so far.

Also, since dishwashers are "supposed to" last 10 years or more, they may force you to keep an older version of Wifi available on your network (e.g., 2.4ghz n) when all of your other devices may be on the latest version.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#169

Post by destitude »

mgkimsal wrote: post #99
mburee wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it'd be too easy to just invest some time beforehand to figure out the optimal process beforehand.

Maybe there's some new dirt-sensing algorithms that can use crowd-sourced info to improve the efficiency for your specific dirt patterns and water type and detergent combination.

Amazing anybody had any clean dishes with dishwashers before the advent of the internet and wifi so the dishwasher could connect to them.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#170

Post by hungryforcodes »

buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

"the Wi-Fi is useful... the dishwasher auto-doses the powder, rinse aid, salt, etc... and can let me know the levels of those."

I do appreciate your respect for the usefulness of this functionality -- I just throw my laundry in the machine, press ON and then press START, throw in a random amount of soap and 60 minutes later or so I have clean clothes.

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