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U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

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Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#161
post #56

I wonder if the reverse is also true, or if we're about to see white collar wages in the US get crushed. On the one hand, American workers now have the ability to work for more companies, including outside the US. On the other hand, there are a lot more people outside than inside, and far fewer large firms outside than inside, so off-shoring could be net negative for American workers. I wonder if we're about to see p…

>I wonder if we're about to see protectionism expand from blue collar politics into white collar politics.

You already have high protectionism of white collar since ~2015 or 2016, when chance of getting H1B outside of wholesale Indian consultancies became very low.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#162
post #109

The headline says "pillaging," which is a kind of stealing by force. But actually (as the less editorialized HN headline says) what the US companies are doing is hiring Latin America's tech talent, paying a fair price instead of the shitty prices Latin American companies are used to paying. Unsurprisingly these companies think of Latin American developers as their property, so they see it as "pillaging". Because I'm…

>the belief that anyone who is rich got that way by screwing over other people Is this a symptom/cause of the crab-bucket mentality? It is here in Uruguay, as well, and I hold it myself, to my own detriment. Is there a name for this? I want to read about it and see if I can change my mind, grow a bit. Thank you

I don't know to what extent you can disentangle cause and effect in human psychology. Certainly if you believe rich people are evil, you will feel justified in tearing them down, so you will tend to tear them down more, in which case it's a cause of the crab-bucket mentality. But you might also just feel a lot of envy for rich people and consequently engage in motivated reasoning that leads you to believe that they are evil, in which case it's an effect.

(Negative feedback systems in general do this weird interchange of cause and effect. An op-amp's inputs are kept at the same voltage because they're its inputs. It's a real mindfuck, in a good way.)

More generally, throughout history, most people who got rich did get that way by screwing over other people; I mean that's literally how warfare works, by harming the opposing forces enough to get them to submit, and in feudal systems (and quasi-feudal systems like the Argentine system) that's how you gain power and wealth. Feudal nobles and partisan politicians are whoever was historically best at harming the opposing forces. Most of human history isn't that, of course, because everyday life always works by cooperation and goodwill, but most of the parts of history that got written down were people competing to hurt each other.

The crab-bucket mentality is very helpful to politicians because it prevents upstart businesses (and regions, and cities) from creating alternative centers of power that could compete with the established order.

Capitalism was the decisive break with that tradition, in which people compete by doing the most good for their customers instead of harm to whoever their enemies are at the moment; but nothing in capitalism prevents powerful and rich people from hurting whoever they see as their opposition, except that it's unprofitable to spend too much on hurting them, and if you choose poorly they may be able to hurt you back, which is even more unprofitable. And whoever is powerful can use that power for harm, too, and being human, they usually do. Still, by changing the criterion for wealth from doing harm to doing good, capitalism changed the incentives enormously.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#163

It’s not just Latin America. It’s also Canada, most of Europe, it’s India, Asia, and I’m hearing Africa also experiencing a similar pull. There’s a global talent shortage for experienced people in software engineering, and it’s spilling over everywhere. Remote work becoming the norm thanks to the pandemic, plus the rise of services like Remote.com, Deel and similar ones is making it much easier to hire remotely in mo…

Reminder, every “talent shortage” is actually a wage shortage. Double those salaries and you’ll find plenty of talent.

High wages do not manufacture talent. Spending more money won't allow every soccer team in the world to have a Lionel Messi on squad. There are a finite supply of most skill sets, which can be well below the total demand for those skill sets.

Companies don't want to hire generic software engineers, there is a huge demand for software engineering skill sets that are extremely difficult to learn, and which can only be acquired after years of diligent effort and experience. This is where the gap is and no amount of paying more will create a larger supply. Some software engineering expertise is already paying in excess of $1,000,000, and there are still severe shortages. That's not a "wage shortage" unless you expect me to believe that software engineers are choosing to grind away on ERP software for $150k instead.

The highest paying software engineering skill sets are the most difficult ones to fill. Software engineering skill sets are not fungible. The highest paid ones are often those with the least elastic supply.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#164

My success with outsourcing some work to Latin America has been much, much, much more successful than outsourcing to India and other places in Asia for the following reasons: 1. As the article points out, being in the same/similar timezones is huge. With so many folks working remotely anyway, it's much easier to integrate these developers as part of the team. They join standups, we can have easy back-and-forths in Sl…

I tend to agree with you having worked with IBM's global consulting services and their workforce in both India and Brazil many moons ago.

While in theory, it may sound like you could have around the clock hands-on-keyboard time by having folks in India, it's more advantageous to have people work in similar time zone if it is joint development work.

I do have to say, when there are important soccer matches though, developers in Brail were... a bit harder to reach. no joke. lol.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what university students in the U.S. and abroad have been faced with. Most engineers with a paycheck simply don't get the problem. Competition is higher now than ever for entry, companies do not want to hire graduates, they do not want to invest resources into them. They want the maximum amount of short term profit possible. Build things fast, sell them, next project. We are racing to the bottom and t…

This is not true. I work in a FAANG-like company. Talent shortage is real - we are having to hire entry level grads where we originally wanted experienced candidates. We are even going out of the way to hire candidates from non-traditional backgrounds and train them.

The "talent shortage" is self caused by FAANG. Your company does not invest in education, yet expects people to be experienced. Accreditation for compsci and others is sorely out of touch with the tech industry, and university programs are not funded. We are literally strangling the life out of young adults with course materials that don't matter, expenses they have to work manual labor to pay, classes that don't teach, and making them have to sort through dumpsters to find an Arduino. It's that bad. What do tech companies do when asked to sponsor a program? No response. They don't care unless it's from a FAANG employee themselves, if that.

These companies are meant to be heavily taxed for how much they are taking from society, with those taxes put back into education. Yet here we are.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#166
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you on leetcode?

I believe LC wasn't a thing back then, or at least not mainstream. I don't waste my time on LC now. If I get free time, I'd rather work on a personal project or hobby. Granted, I'm actually thinking of moving into some sort of corporate strategy analyst role since I don't really get to code anymore. The past 2 years has been very little coding or business problem solving. It's mostly been config, infrastructure, prod…

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about a time long ago.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't mediocre be generally acceptable? It seems unreal to expect the majority to be above average.

My experience is mediocre is insufficient in SW preojects. You NEED some good technical pillars, else it will all be shit.

Then 75% of software is shit?

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#168
post #85

There's a company called Auth0, which was comprised of mostly Argentinians. They did quite well for themselves, they got bought out by Okta for 6b.

There's a very inspiring interview with the co-founder on the Changelog podcast. Highly recommended!

Changelog Master Feed: Leading Auth0 to a $6.5 billion acquisition (Founders Talk #78) https://changelog.com/founderstalk/78

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what university students in the U.S. and abroad have been faced with. Most engineers with a paycheck simply don't get the problem. Competition is higher now than ever for entry, companies do not want to hire graduates, they do not want to invest resources into them. They want the maximum amount of short term profit possible. Build things fast, sell them, next project. We are racing to the bottom and t…

Universities aren't reliably producing CS graduates that can code. If a student enters a collegiate program with some interest or experience in programming, then they're likely to come out of it with solid skills and find some opportunities. If an employer has the resources to select from the best that universities have to offer, then they can find great candidates. But for us that aren't working for FAANG, a univers…

I suppose I was once part of the problem back when I marked assignments in grad school. We're heavily incentivized to not fail students. There's virtually no difference in grades between a 10x programmer and someone who can barely code fizzbuzz in their 4th year.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#170
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe LC wasn't a thing back then, or at least not mainstream. I don't waste my time on LC now. If I get free time, I'd rather work on a personal project or hobby. Granted, I'm actually thinking of moving into some sort of corporate strategy analyst role since I don't really get to code anymore. The past 2 years has been very little coding or business problem solving. It's mostly been config, infrastructure, prod…

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about a time long ago.

Yeah, I'm old. That was 10+ years ago.
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