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Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

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Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#161

Post by freetime2 »

jrockway wrote: post #99
gkop wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, I thought kind was the spiritual successor to minikube (which I used fondly years ago). When should one reach for minikube over kind today?

minikube is good where you have to have a VM, which is development on Windows and OS X. Linux containers need Linux, much to the dismay of laptop buyers I guess. I personally don't bother. I use Windows but just have a pet Linux VM where I actually do work, and then use kind (with podman; Docker seems to be turning the screws and I'm getting out ahead of that).

What hypervisor do you use? Do you run graphical apps in the VM, and if so is there any noticeable lag?

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#162

Post by freetime2 »

essem wrote: post #23
qbasic_forever wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case you missed it the license terms for Docker Desktop have changed and require companies with ~250 employees to start paying for it: https://www.docker.com/blog/updating-product-subscriptions/

gotcha. i was aware, but doesn't apply to my current circumstance. is that the motivator for most, then?

It was the motivator for me. But having gone through the effort to evaluate alternatives, I’m happy where I ended up (lima). It’s free and open source, and easier to install and configure via scripts than Docker Desktop. The goal for our team is to make getting new developers set up as simple as possible (ideally just a single command), but prior to now the instructions to install and configure Docker Desktop were always an asterisk in the prerequisites section.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#163

Post by tjr225 »

Kwpolska wrote: post #140
sjtindell wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood this, because surely some huge percentage of developers use Macs. Enterprises buy stacks of them nonstop. Just making that group happy would get you the reputation of being a developers machine, for serious computer people, which could translate into laymen purchases too.

Would developers really be happy with containers running macOS inside? Production is running Linux, so they need two sets of images and their local image will be different from the one running in production.

I'm really not sure what comment you're replying to but Mac developers write code that runs on linux primarily using Docker and "VMs" that run linux on docker. Like; probably 75% of the devs on the west coast do this.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#164

Post by speedgoose »

bproven wrote: post #92
speedgoose wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Port forwarding is currently broken if you use dockerd but it will be fixed in the next release or you can run a command to fix it yourself. See https://github.com/rancher-sandbox/rancher-desktop/issues/12... It fails to setup some filesystem links because of Unix permissions. You can fix it in command line. See https://github.com/rancher-sandbox/rancher-desktop/issues/11... If you put your computer into sleep, the V…

thanks! Looks like the first and last issue is fixed in 1.0.0 (released 2 days ago). So only that second issue remains for now.

That’s good news. I did miss the release.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#165

Post by tda »

pjmlp wrote: post #61
riffic wrote: post #37

I know people doing docker dev are generally targeting a Linux of some sort, but why the heck doesn't the macOS kernel support native containerization? Come on Apple. Microsoft can do it. edit: this seems like a new development since my last whine/complaint on this topic: https://macoscontainers.org/

Although just today I was having some Windows containers hiccups, I am looking forward to the day that Microsoft doesn't require installing a third party solution (Docker) to use them.

And for anyone looking to migrate away from docker desktop on Windows for use with VSCode I wrote this guide: https://gist.github.com/tdamsma/06cafea175d6784aea7b3634bb94...

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#167

Post by musicale »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #126
musicale wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple needs to do what Microsoft did surrounding Linux on Windows. Allocate some engineers for a few years to make life easier for developers on their platform. Apple will most likely continue to do what it always does: make billions of dollars while largely ignoring Linux. iOS and macOS developers will continue to use Xcode the way they always have. (And perhaps Swift Playgrounds on iOS.)

Maybe, but that's what we all said about Microsoft ten years ago.

Who knows, maybe Apple will upgrade sandboxing to jails/containers and add a FreeBSD-style Linux compatibility layer. Or maybe they'll go full-on MS and include a Linux kernel alongside Xnu using Hypervisor.framework. (Note that in my experience the networking design of Ubuntu on WSL broke containers that worked fine on regular Ubuntu in Virtualbox/VMware/etc., but YMMV.)

Something like that is certainly possible, though they'd have to have some reason for it, and they don't appear to at the moment.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#168

Post by forty »

Admittedly I haven't tried Windows and MacOS a lot, but I still don't understand why people insist on using MacOS for doing Linux development. I think it must be pretty rare to have devs doing MacOS development not using MacOS or devs doing Windows development not using Windows, but for Linux backend there seem to be a consensus that running VMs is a good idea.

Why is that? Are people doing stuff on their computers I'm not even aware we can do because I use Linux? Or am I working slower because Linux is not the right tool for development? At work I have a feeling that a lot of time is lost to have the Linux devs tools (docker in particular) working properly on other OSes (MacOS and WSL), and docker especially (and those new Mac M1 which suddenly are even slower with all the existing docker images because of course our CI is not building ARM images...).

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#169

Post by sz4kerto »

forty wrote: post #168

Admittedly I haven't tried Windows and MacOS a lot, but I still don't understand why people insist on using MacOS for doing Linux development. I think it must be pretty rare to have devs doing MacOS development not using MacOS or devs doing Windows development not using Windows, but for Linux backend there seem to be a consensus that running VMs is a good idea. Why is that? Are people doing stuff on their computers I…

> Are people doing stuff on their computers I'm not even aware we can do because I use Linux?

Yes, that’s mostly it. Fractional display scaling, good battery life, switching between audio devices that might be wireless or connected to a thunderbolt dock, seamless copy/paste, this kind of stuff. Some of it works on Linux too with some work but the question is what’s more economical. No system is perfect, honestly. It’s much easier for me to use Docker on a non-Linux system (or use a local or remote VM) than fix bluetooth audio.

Re: Docker for Mac Without Docker Desktop

#170

Post by nine_k »

forty wrote: post #168

Admittedly I haven't tried Windows and MacOS a lot, but I still don't understand why people insist on using MacOS for doing Linux development. I think it must be pretty rare to have devs doing MacOS development not using MacOS or devs doing Windows development not using Windows, but for Linux backend there seem to be a consensus that running VMs is a good idea. Why is that? Are people doing stuff on their computers I…

For some reason, Macbooks are considered sexy. No wonder; Apple produces fashion accessories that double as pieces of advanced technology. To my mind, their only outstanding quality is battery life.

Then, MacOS is bundled with these machines. It's very opinionated and highly integrated; little needs adjustment, or cab be adjusted at all. For some people, it's a relief.

Last but absolutely not least is that many companies standardize on few vendors and few models, ideally, only one vendor. Apple gladly fills this niche, admittedly offering good technical support, and enthusiastic sales force. As an engineer, you're not given a choice; I've been in such situation several times.

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