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How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

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Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#161

Post by sbate1987 »

bregma wrote: post #88
Fenrisulfr wrote: post #3

There's a great book about the progression of clothing, textiles, and fabric being scarce and expensive to commonplace and cheap. It runs through the various technological innovations (think cotton gin, but plenty more), culture, and economics. The Fabric of Civilization by Virginia Postrel. Great quote about Viking sail ships: "Viking Age sail 100 meters square took 154 kilometers (60 miles) of yarn. Working eight h…

Plucking sheep. You shear sheep, not pluck them. If you're experienced you can sheer about 100 sheep per day. You can skirt and wash the fleece of those same 100 sheep on day two. How are you spending the remaining 598 days? While I'm not an expert at spinning (although my spouse may be), I would venture that 12 or 15 village women carding and spinning 10 to 12 hours a day would be able to go from sheep to sail in ab…

No post body was provided.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#162

Post by lstodd »

causi wrote: post #159
wongarsu wrote: post #11

> So a linen weaver would need to work for (500 / 2×40 to 500 / 2×20) 6 to 12 days to earn the price of the simplest linen tunic So translating to modern wages (in US/Western Europe) somewhere between $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality. That certainly puts the practice of robbers to take people's clothes into perspective.

I wonder how the longevity compares. Would a tunic last much longer than a modern pair of jeans?

Even contemporary linen clothes last way longer than a random pair of jeans.

It's not that onesided, good linen trousers are usually somewhat more free-fitting, and usually don't chafe as much as typical jeans models. But still.

Also superior water vapor exchange is superior.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#163

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

sandworm101 wrote: post #158
wongarsu wrote: post #11

> So a linen weaver would need to work for (500 / 2×40 to 500 / 2×20) 6 to 12 days to earn the price of the simplest linen tunic So translating to modern wages (in US/Western Europe) somewhere between $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality. That certainly puts the practice of robbers to take people's clothes into perspective.

>> $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality. Go look at the price for a nice suit, or a designer dress. Those numbers are not terribly high.

"Not terribly high," I mean 99.5% of Americans will never spend even the lower end of that range on a single garment. It seems pretty high to me. Also you have to get pretty high up into the luxury market before you'll find a suit that costs $7,000. Armanis are synonymous with luxury suits in the public consciousness and they top out at $4,000, according to their website.

The cost of those luxury items don't come from the cost of making them. They come from the fact that they are luxury items -- it's the exclusivity and signaling that you're paying for. For more on this phenomenon see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#164

Post by ted_dunning »

Telemakhos wrote: post #68
retrac wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you wouldn't be building a steam engine with the tools of Greek artisans in antiquity, not even the ones who built the Antikythera mechanism. But we do know some things that would seem like crazy hacks to the ancients. For example, I know a simple trick. I can multiply numbers, of arbitrary size. And I can do it in a few seconds using just a stylus and tablet. This would have blown the minds of a learned Roman o…

> I can multiply numbers, of arbitrary size. And I can do it in a few seconds using just a stylus and tablet. So could a Roman or Greek. He'd just need a counting board and some stones. He could probably do it faster than you, as well. Anyone using an abacus today could perform almost exactly the same algorithms, with the added convenience of having beads on rods in a frame instead of an unwieldy counting board and s…

> this goes so quickly

Many people don't realize how fast it is to work on abacus (or soroban in Japanese). Here is an example of what a 7 year old can do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQtqlB-jXO0

For many years I always did my taxes and other accounting using an abacus because it was sooo much easier than longhand (this was before calculators).

There is the famous Feynman story as well:

https://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/abacus/feynman.html

But you wouldn't impress an ancient Greek very much by taking cube roots quickly because there wouldn't be much call for that.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#165

Post by picsao »

wongarsu wrote: post #11

> So a linen weaver would need to work for (500 / 2×40 to 500 / 2×20) 6 to 12 days to earn the price of the simplest linen tunic So translating to modern wages (in US/Western Europe) somewhere between $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality. That certainly puts the practice of robbers to take people's clothes into perspective.

No post body was provided.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#166

Post by jewel »

lumost wrote: post #4
hprotagonist wrote: post #2

Something that continually just blows my mind is how new spinning wheels are. The most plausible range of time of arrival of the wheel in European contexts is between the mid-1200s to about 1340, which means that textiles produced previously to that were made with drop spindles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spindle_(textiles)#Hand_spindl... That includes things like clothing, but it also includes more staggering ide…

It’s curious, if you go back in time far enough with all knowledge from the present, you’d surely arrive at a point where you still need to work your entire life to bring one component of one innovation to life. Even then, the innovation would be unlikely to survive your death due to other missing parts of the supply chain. Try building a musket in Ancient Greece, you’d need to start with building the steel supply ch…

There's a book roughly on that topic called "How to Invent Everything" that I enjoyed, but I'm not sure I remember enough of it now to be of any good, so I'm going to be sure to grab it before going back in time.

Also along the same lines is "The Knowledge: How to Rebuild Civilization in the Aftermath of a Cataclysm", which I also enjoyed and keep a copy around just in case.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#167

Post by slowhand09 »

coupdejarnac wrote: post #135
slowhand09 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lifetime ago I worked in a textile mill in the US. After a several months I worked my way up to be a machine operator, a weaver. I had upwards of 50 weaving machines I kept operating thru my shift. Each of these produced probably 80meters * 6meters of fabric in an 8 hour shift. And at this rate, mills in southeast asia were able to undercut prices so much the US industry collapsed.

How old were the machinese you operated? I'm imagining turn of the century steam powered weavers. :)

They were state of the art MAV Rapier machines, in mid 1970's. They didn't use shuttles, but instead had rapiers that transported the fibers across the weave.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#168

Post by yesbabyyes »

samstave wrote: post #55
retrac wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you wouldn't be building a steam engine with the tools of Greek artisans in antiquity, not even the ones who built the Antikythera mechanism. But we do know some things that would seem like crazy hacks to the ancients. For example, I know a simple trick. I can multiply numbers, of arbitrary size. And I can do it in a few seconds using just a stylus and tablet. This would have blown the minds of a learned Roman o…

Do you recall the famous 'fan-fiction' fable of Prufrock on Reddit that was asked what happened if a modern military [Platoon?] was transported to ancient rome, and how would they fare against roman legions... It was supoposed to have been opted for a movie... and then douchebagery ensues and it never made it to light...

This is reminiscent of the book series A Time Odyssey, by Stephen Baxter and Arthur C. Clarke, where a UN helicopter crew and a couple of cosmonauts from 2037, a late 19th century British force, the Mongol horde under Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great's army and a couple of early hominids happen to meet each other. I remember it as a quite interesting parallel to A Space Odyssey. Highly recommended.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#169

Post by ctdonath »

amelius wrote: post #6

Clothing remains expensive, except we don't see the true cost.

Au contraire, it’s even cheaper than portrayed. Even though a “basic tunic” today can be had for less than an hour of minimum wage work under very comfortable conditions, the price additionally covers advertising, intercontinental shipping, extensive regulatory compliance, extensive insurance, great HVAC, etc.

Yes you can find “tragedy of the commons” and other concerns for modern production. Realize the tradeoffs, that ancient circumstances denied many benefits enjoyed today, that were we to subject workers today to those circumstances you’d be far more outraged.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#170

Post by dharmab »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #163
sandworm101 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality. Go look at the price for a nice suit, or a designer dress. Those numbers are not terribly high.

"Not terribly high," I mean 99.5% of Americans will never spend even the lower end of that range on a single garment. It seems pretty high to me. Also you have to get pretty high up into the luxury market before you'll find a suit that costs $7,000. Armanis are synonymous with luxury suits in the public consciousness and they top out at $4,000, according to their website. The cost of those luxury items don't come fro…

> I mean 99.5% of Americans will never spend even the lower end of that range on a single garment.

Wedding dresses?

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