Procrastinatory Doom Loops • Hacker News Board

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#161

Post by burkaman » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:11 PM UTC

thoughtpeddler wrote: post #155

romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

Looking at your third link about diagnosis in adults (which I think is most relevant to the discussion here), it provides a good overview of why overdiagnosis would be bad and how to potentially avoid it, but it doesn't actually try to answer the question Is Adult Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Being Overdiagnosed? I think it's fair to use this paper as evidence that some psychiatrists are concerned that overdiagnosis may be happening, but not as evidence that it actually is happening.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#162

Post by data_ders » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:12 PM UTC

wffurr wrote: post #138

sshine wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an amazing experience report. I remember teaming up with a former colleague at a point where their SRI had just kicked in, and my motivation was down the drain. I felt they were doing me a huge favor, and they felt the same way back. Pair programming is, so far, the only certain cure to my procrastination. I'll certainly work when not pair programming, but pair programming will make me give 100% for 12+ hours…

What does "SRI" mean in this context?

prolly RSI: repetitive stress injury. Though at first I thought they meant SSRI

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#163

Post by beaconstudios » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

OK, so I used to have this problem, hardcore. Gave me a lot of trouble, I often overcommitted and ran away from tasks - but I've actually solved this problem now. It's not a fun solution, I have to do it every time (for now - the issue itself may fade with time) and it can be stressful, but it works and it isn't uncomfortable for very long.

So when I get distressed by a task I've put off, I use mindfulness techniques to stop myself from dissociating (going into my head, criticising myself for not doing it, psychoanalysing myself, other stuff that's not directly related to doing the task) and redirect my focus back to figuring out the first action I can take to progress the task. Thinking about the bigger-picture benefits of completing the task also help (how does completing this task advance goals that I care about?) Once I've figured it out, I continue to use the mindfulness techniques to remain present while I complete said task, only allowing my mind to wander in the direction of thinking more about the practical completion of the task (resolving other unknowns, breaking down big tasks, etc). Once I get this ball rolling the anxiety goes away, but it's hard to start because as TFA says, it comes with a strong repulsive instinct to avoid, procrastinate, do anything but the task that needs doing. You need to overcome that through focusing on the first step and doing it. "One foot in front of the other" as they say.

I think it comes from being overwhelmed - either from seeing the task as a complete object rather than breaking it down, not knowing how to advance it, feeling guilty over not having done it in time, or a million other reasons. You can't let being overwhelmed turn into avoidance - you have to confront and resolve the problem that's causing the emotional disturbance.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#164

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

wffurr wrote: post #138

sshine wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an amazing experience report. I remember teaming up with a former colleague at a point where their SRI had just kicked in, and my motivation was down the drain. I felt they were doing me a huge favor, and they felt the same way back. Pair programming is, so far, the only certain cure to my procrastination. I'll certainly work when not pair programming, but pair programming will make me give 100% for 12+ hours…

What does "SRI" mean in this context?

[deleted]

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#165

Post by thom » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:24 PM UTC

thoughtpeddler wrote: post #155

romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

I know dozens of people in my life that exhibit most or all of the symptoms described in one of the parent's links, but I wouldn't diagnose them with anything more serious than 'parenthood'.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#166

Post by beaconstudios » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:27 PM UTC

bluejellybean wrote: post #134

Another trick that I haven't seen anyone talk about in this thread is visualization. I'll use this whenever I notice the loop, but still don't have the courage to actually stop. I'll pause for a moment, tell myself that I am NOT going to do the thing exactly at this moment, but instead I will just visualize the exact steps needed for when I eventually sit down to do it. This helps for those situations in which I'm pr…

100% this. I've commented similar elsewhere in the thread with a similar position - essentially, there's something you need to do that you're avoiding, some problem you need to resolve, and it's emotionally uncomfortable. Many of us have learned to avoid discomfort, but often times you need to go through it to make progress. It's best if you can minimise that discomfort in order to make headway, and simply breaking down what needs doing in your head can help make it less stressful.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#167

Post by 300bps » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

Just want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder.

I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking.

So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative impact on your life.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#168

Post by wombat-man » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #167

romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

Just want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder. I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative…

Yeah, I deal with a lot of the listed symptoms. But I've never been diagnosed and I seem to be a fairly functional person.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#169

Post by ivansavz » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

wffurr wrote: post #138

sshine wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an amazing experience report. I remember teaming up with a former colleague at a point where their SRI had just kicked in, and my motivation was down the drain. I felt they were doing me a huge favor, and they felt the same way back. Pair programming is, so far, the only certain cure to my procrastination. I'll certainly work when not pair programming, but pair programming will make me give 100% for 12+ hours…

What does "SRI" mean in this context?

I'm guessing Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. I've seen friends on it and it has a weird effect of being extra optimistic and helpful toward others. I can see how if you're feeling in a low energy state pairing up with someone like that can be a good thing. Second hand meds ;)

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#170

Post by Mezzie » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

thoughtpeddler wrote: post #155

romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

It's definitely a sign of executive dysfunction, but executive dysfunction has causes that aren't ADHD. My executive function fluctuates with my anxiety, for example, and my MS has blown a giant hole in it.