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Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

paulefou.com

161–170 of 684 posts

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not single and haven't been fora long time, but my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps, practically speaking. Even the norms around dating, picking people up in bars, etc. are changing because of these apps, so it's harder to find people in the real world. Not impossible, obviously, but getting banned from Tinder is kind of a big deal. (Also all these apps are owned by th…

No offense, but bullshit. I've personally never once in my life used a single dating app and have met plenty of dates and love interests the old fashioned way, by interacting with them in the real world after random encounters (bars, events etc) or through circles of friends. Most of the people I know met their own love interests in the same way. I don't live in some backward country with little app use either. What…

Parent didn't say it's not possible, and your situation is anecdotal.

If over 50% of people (and growing) say their relationship started on OLD, it's easy to say you're limiting your options by not participating [0]

[0]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/06/10-facts-ab...

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#162
This happened to me because I uploaded a picture holding a pepper from my garden that Tinder's AI flagged as phallic. To a human being, it was no more phallic than any other pepper and definitely not sexualized. Tinder refused to manually review the photo so I was banned with no recourse.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works the same way in old fashioned setups. Barring exceptional knowledge of two peoples’ compatibility, someone looking to introduce two people to each other would propose a setup between two similarly attractive, educated, income/wealth level people. Otherwise, the matchmaker ends up losing reputation and participants trust them less due to higher chances of failure. It works the same way in business relationshi…

While I agree to an extent, the issue I see is that business partners, friends, etc likely know you far better than a site you enter curated information into in order to reach an end goal ever will. The desirability of your profile aside, it's entirely credibly that any profile you create is a poor representation, many people may not know what it is about themselves that others like.

It is a poor representation, you then meet in person and start from square one, no different than how online always has been. You just have to get your foot in the door with people you would have never otherwise met at all. Its just an additional venue amongst other venues also available.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#164

By far the best part is they didn't automatically cancel his subscription. What a horrible company, if you've banned my account that's fine but cancel the subscription and refund my money. If y'all haven't looked at it yet, read up on the FCC's filing against Match. They knowingly prompt up tons of fake profiles, to get you engaged. Horrifically this has lead to romance scams being the number one source of fraud in t…

I don't know what happened in this situation, but generally refunding money for TOS violations is a bad idea. Let me explain why. Imagine that Alice runs a service where you can send people greeting cards. Bob decides he's going to use this service to cause trouble and instead of normal greeting cards, he sends people messages with hate speech, such as their race, their religion, says he hoped they get cancer, and so…

> Should Bob get a refund?

Yes - Bob should be returned a pro-rated amount based on the amount time he originally paid to use the service for and the day his account was terminated.

EX: If Bob paid for a month, and Alice cancels him on day 5, Bob should be refunded approx: (30 - 5)/30 * (Cost of subscription).

You do not get to charge people for a service you are no longer providing them.

You're NOT refunding him, you're terminating the contract that allowed you to charge him in the first place. So you bill for time used and return the rest.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#165
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not single and haven't been fora long time, but my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps, practically speaking. Even the norms around dating, picking people up in bars, etc. are changing because of these apps, so it's harder to find people in the real world. Not impossible, obviously, but getting banned from Tinder is kind of a big deal. (Also all these apps are owned by th…

> my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps, practically speaking. This is definitely not true. > Even the norms around dating, picking people up in bars, etc. are changing because of these apps This is true. > so it's harder to find people in the real world. This is sort of true. By not using a dating app, a single person is relegating themselves to how things were pre-app. Som…

After checking reality, online dating's the #1 way people meet, and its market share (>50%) is growing. [0] [1]

[0] https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/21/online-dating-popular-w...

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/06/10-facts-ab...

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a woman, Tinder is fine if you wanna find a fuck buddy and don’t take it seriously. I see a lot of people (men and women) get wrapped up in the swipe game and that’s really not how it works. You can’t take anything that happens on that platform personally. Unfortunately, rule #1 on tinder is “be physically attractive”. If you want tinder to work for you consistently as a man, get your personal hygiene in order and…

Why is that rule unfortunate? Why would someone date or hookup with someone they're not physically attracted to?

This kind of thing is what they're talking about.

> It was determined that the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men

[1]. https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-g...

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#167

By far the best part is they didn't automatically cancel his subscription. What a horrible company, if you've banned my account that's fine but cancel the subscription and refund my money. If y'all haven't looked at it yet, read up on the FCC's filing against Match. They knowingly prompt up tons of fake profiles, to get you engaged. Horrifically this has lead to romance scams being the number one source of fraud in t…

I don't know what happened in this situation, but generally refunding money for TOS violations is a bad idea. Let me explain why. Imagine that Alice runs a service where you can send people greeting cards. Bob decides he's going to use this service to cause trouble and instead of normal greeting cards, he sends people messages with hate speech, such as their race, their religion, says he hoped they get cancer, and so…

That's not how cancellations for subscriptions or refunds for services work though. If Bob has paid Alice to send cards, and she has sent them, then obviously no refund is necessary. Alice just needs to ban Bob from using the service again.

In the case of Tinder banning someone, they should automatically cancel the subscription because the customer no longer have access to what they're paying for, and if there's a part of a month left they should refund the value of that. Companies should not be allowed to issue 'punishment' to customers. That's what the criminal justice system is for.

This is not a hard problem. Companies should only charge for the service they provide, and if they choose to withdraw that service they shouldn't take any money for what the user can't use.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#168
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have to worry about banks banning you, you maybe shouldn't be in a position where you need to take financial advice from HN comments and you're likely better off with cash than an unstable asset that you can't easily eliminate without involving a bank.

> If you have to worry about banks banning you Banks ban you for joke comments in bank transfers or anything that alludes to drugs, sex work or gambling. Or for transferring remittances to your parents in a way some algorithm deemed to be "structuring" or "money laundering for terrorists". PayPal bans you for whatever the fuck their AI decided on a whim. I've been on HN for over eight and a half years now and help re…

> Banks ban you for joke comments in bank transfers or anything that alludes to drugs, sex work or gambling

Surely it must be possible to exercise a wee bit of self control and not be an edgelord in every aspect of one's life?

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#169
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Tinder swiping is bracketed by implied desirable ness of the profile. They even tell you when you're "doing well".

Curious what the algorithm would be to measure "desireableness". Computer vision on the photos (i.e. measure facial symmetry?) plus the number of other people who have expressed interest in you?

They aren't doing anything that complicated. A popular profile is attractive and chooses a very small percentage of others. The profile that person chooses gets a much greater weighting of desirability by being chosen by the popular profile.

The popular profile that chooses a high percentage of others is not a real human being and/or is selling sex. A pretty irrelevant signal for desirability. It's quite simple. Just like in the real world in that regard, people want higher signals of why they were chosen and it is accurate to be skeptical of an undiscerning attractive person because it usually is a low signal since they don't actually want you, they want to sell something.

Game the system by being more discerning. This is counterintuitive for people wanting matches by statistical probability as it seems like matching faster and arbitrarily will help, but that behavior ensures being downranked to the doldrums with other actually unattractive people.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#170
post #30

From Tinder's ToS: > Tinder may terminate your account at any time without notice if it believes that you have violated this Agreement. Upon such termination, you will not be entitled to any refund for purchases. > For residents of the Republic of Korea, except in the case [...], we will without delay notify you of the reason for taking the relevant step. They openly say in advance that they'll ban users who they thi…

"Take their money and run" is one of those standard operating practices in big tech that I think obviously needs legislation to curb. Once you start looking, you see it everywhere; whether its movies on iTunes, books on Kindle, or costumes in Fortnite. If you break their ToS, they're allowed to cancel your account, without recourse, and take away all the content you purchased. Its especially egregious in gaming, where a false accusation of cheating can cause your account to disappear; and because there's a "guilty until proven guilty" stigma against cheating, by-and-large gaming company support teams will not help. They'll auto-ban accounts, hardware signatures, even IP addresses.

Content providers should have the right to cease service to customers who don't abide by their terms. I don't feel that's unreasonable. But, consumers need recourse for the monetary investment. I'd strongly support a law worded something like: Digital service providers who sell transactional content & goods must either (1) offer the goods in an exportable, unencumbered, similarly accessible & functional format, or (2) at the time of service-provider initiated account termination, for any reason, reimburse the user for the full cost of goods purchased.

Many companies would argue: "we don't have the money anymore, we had to pay rights holders." I'd respond, that sounds like a You problem, and maybe you should consider clause (1). "The rights holders won't go for it"; again, that's a You problem. Work it out, or lose money; that's what consumer protection laws are for. They're not to protect your revenue streams.

Some gaming companies would be especially hurt by this, because of the prevalence of blank-check anticheat enforcement and their general inability to meet clause (1) due to the latest Fortnite cosmetic not really being "equally functional" outside the context of Fortnite. Well, I'd first respond: Your reliance on unjust business operating practices is a You problem. But more critically: maybe this will be the kick in the butt these companies need to invest more heavily into more accurate & functional anti-cheat, better customer support, and even new innovative revenue models. I've long felt that gaming has underutilized subscription services, and preyed too heavily on "free to play, pay $100 for the cool stuff later". Battle passes are kind of like a subscription service, and if the terms & expectations of the purchase are rephrased to be more service-like, rather than transactional-like, its reasonable to me that those should escape the law.

The best argument against a law like this is: consumers can, of course, break a company's terms at any time they wish. Most choose not to. But if they wanted to, the purchases with a content provider become something like a bank account, which they can utilize as they wish for as long as they wish, then get a full refund. Response: First, I think this should drive companies to clause (1). There's an out; you just need to work with the rights holders and accept that piracy will happen whether or not you try to control it. Second, again I think it comes back to mixing metaphors; Fortnite sells Goods, but they're only functional within the context of the Fortnite Service. Maybe they should sell the Service, and include the Goods. Third, this is a gap that insurance feels well-suited to help cover. Fourth, I think this would drive more companies to better KYC, so if anyone pulls this, at least they can only pull it once. That's not a bad thing.

The point should be to align what customers expect with what providers sell. If Netflix cancels your account, it sucks; but you don't feel slighted. It was a service; you understood that if you stopped paying, the service goes away. In comparison, the goods Apple sells (Apps, Movies, Books, etc) feel a lot more like going to the DVD isle in Best Buy; and its not ok that companies are allowed to slight customers like they do.

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