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UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

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Re: UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

#161

Post by perl4ever »

cortesoft wrote: post #134
perl4ever wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to hear more about the industry of delivering food without prepayment.

I mean, almost all pizza delivery was cash on delivery until fairly recently, which is food delivery without prepayment. The driver would tell you how much you owed, and you hand them the cash plus a tip. Yes, sometimes pizza places would have issues with people prank ordering a bunch of pizzas to someone else’s house, but pizza shops had ways to try to mitigate that risk. If you are really too young to remember this…

Thanks, but I wasn't asking about history. You can't roll the clock back.

I'm old enough to remember when you could pump gas before paying, and there was actually at least one place that had full service in town (I've never lived in NJ or OR).

Re: UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

#162

Post by perl4ever »

throwaway_2009 wrote: post #138
perl4ever wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to hear more about the industry of delivering food without prepayment.

Er, basically every takeaway I've ever bought? Is this a joke? Come to mine and we'll get an Indian in? lol.

I'm getting the impression that people are avoiding saying "it's a thing outside the US".

I'm in the US, though, so I was interested if it was a thing in the US.

Re: UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

#163

Post by fzil »

pydry wrote: post #152
fzil wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at a certain point you have to take responsibility for your actions and the impact it has on the world. Sure, if you don't do it somebody else will. But what matters is that you weren't the one who did it and dirtied your hands. Yes, the CEO/management are responsible for the overall direction and tactics used by the business but the engineers are also complicit since without them the plan isn't executed.

Why blame the greedy managers and owners at the top your overpriced pizza when you can blame the guy with a mortgage who did as he was told? Besides they're as likely to tell the developers to code it up so they could do this in theory and then turn it on themselves.

> Why blame the greedy managers and owners at the top your overpriced pizza when you can blame the guy with a mortgage who did as he was told?

Nobody's absolving the managers or owners from their part in this issue. The point is that the guy with the mortgage decided that an extra room in his house or a bigger backyard is worth stealing from others. This isn't some ethically grey area, its outright theft that the engineer enabled.

> Besides they're as likely to tell the developers to code it up so they could do this in theory and then turn it on themselves.

I've never worked at Uber or any other big corp so I can't speak to how they do things there. This seems quite probable, but still doesn't completely absolve the engineer from responsibility. All it does is reduce their share of blame.

Re: UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

#164

Post by fzil »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #154
notreallyserio wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. I can't imagine a scenario where someone asks me to implement the message in question and I reply "I won't do it and if you insist I quit." I guess this is your choice but I find it unethical. If you're a good engineer at Uber chances are 100% you can get a job at any other high-paying organization, so why choose to participate in this scheme?

My point is, neither of the 3 separate messages on the screen is morally wrong on its own. It is only when you combine them it becomes obvious is totally wrong. As for the core of your point, frankly, half of the Silicon Valley would be jobless. Not just Uber programmers who already proved who they are by developing Greyball. The whole business of Facebook and Google is centered around tracking people. Amazon will ha…

All the examples that you gave are strictly in the morally grey area. Where they end up on the spectrum is up to you as a person and what values you consider more important than others.

However, in this case, things are quite black and white. Someone pays money for food, they don't get any and then you keep the money anyway. Calling it anything other than theft is being delusional. If they did partial refunds or they only gave uber eats credit instead of money then this case would be in the same bucket as the ones you mentioned in your comment.

Re: UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

#165

Post by cortesoft »

perl4ever wrote: post #161
cortesoft wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, almost all pizza delivery was cash on delivery until fairly recently, which is food delivery without prepayment. The driver would tell you how much you owed, and you hand them the cash plus a tip. Yes, sometimes pizza places would have issues with people prank ordering a bunch of pizzas to someone else’s house, but pizza shops had ways to try to mitigate that risk. If you are really too young to remember this…

Thanks, but I wasn't asking about history. You can't roll the clock back. I'm old enough to remember when you could pump gas before paying, and there was actually at least one place that had full service in town (I've never lived in NJ or OR).

Umm, you can still order from most pizza places and pay on delivery. You just call them up on the phone.

Re: UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

#166

Post by NavinF »

howdydoo wrote: post #78
stefan_ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, what is that screen?! "We didn't keep our part of the contract, but we are charging you anyway"? How on earth did that make it all the way into the app.

https://libredd.it/img/g1o5jeeok8681.jpg You weren't kidding. Fraud doesn't get more blatant than this

I’m gonna guess the screenshot is fake. Their support page still says he should get a refund: https://help.uber.com/ubereats/article/i-was-charged-for-can...

Re: UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

#167

Post by cortesoft »

perl4ever wrote: post #162
throwaway_2009 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er, basically every takeaway I've ever bought? Is this a joke? Come to mine and we'll get an Indian in? lol.

I'm getting the impression that people are avoiding saying "it's a thing outside the US". I'm in the US, though, so I was interested if it was a thing in the US.

I am also in the US (California) and still sometimes order pizza to be paid with cash on delivery. It is a thing in the US

Re: UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

#168

Post by colanderman »

hermes8329 wrote: post #151
colanderman wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DoorDash is/was awful. I don't think I ever got warm food from them. Haven't used them in years now.

Every one's experiences are different but i just switched from GrubHub because their drivers are assholes. door dash has been much better already I contacted grub hub about the problem but don't expect much acknowledgement. They did refund a dinner that was stolen pretty much instantly and comped me for a next meal for the troubles atleast. But that was just one good resolution over a number of instances where driver…

Oh I once had a driver from another service (GrubHub or UberEats, can't remember which) balance a pizza on top of a 1" wide metal railing.† But at least it was still warm.

It's the worst of all worlds. We entered a Faustian bargain to allow these corporations to usher in techno-libertarian dystopia, but instead of the Hiro Protagonist we were promised, we get an angry Walter White.

† Horizontally, not vertically, though really, who's counting?

Re: UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

#169

Post by pydry »

fzil wrote: post #163
pydry wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why blame the greedy managers and owners at the top your overpriced pizza when you can blame the guy with a mortgage who did as he was told? Besides they're as likely to tell the developers to code it up so they could do this in theory and then turn it on themselves.

> Why blame the greedy managers and owners at the top your overpriced pizza when you can blame the guy with a mortgage who did as he was told? Nobody's absolving the managers or owners from their part in this issue. The point is that the guy with the mortgage decided that an extra room in his house or a bigger backyard is worth stealing from others. This isn't some ethically grey area, its outright theft that the eng…

>Nobody's absolving the managers

Whether consciously or not, scapegoating their minions does exactly that.

This is a pervasive feature of American culture where the most guilty parties with the most power who have the least defensible motives use FUD to spread the blame around and it actually works. People buy this shit and even internalize it - something this thread is a living testament to.

This is the same shit that happened when the CEO of Boeing tried to blame the dead pilots and subsequently tried to throw his engineers under the bus and each time where there was even a shade of doubt a ready cohort of people stood ready to defend the self serving FUD he pumped out.

>I've never worked at Uber or any other big corp so I can't speak to how they do things there.

Only at small companies have I ever been asked to build $evilfeature. At big companies I get asked to build $featurethatcouldbeabused. The bigger the impact and the more morally wrong it is the more feature indirection there will be.

Either way it's good to know that when somebody with the power to deprive me of my sole income asks me to build a kitchen knife they intend to stab someone with there's a willing crowd on hacker news ready to claim that they dont get to hog all of the blame because I technically could have refused to make that kitchen knife and joined the unemployment queue.

Re: UberEats took unauthorized amount (and not willing to pay it back)

#170

Post by notyourwork »

najqh wrote: post #109
notyourwork wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxi

I'd rather walk with my shoes full of pins than give my money to taxis.

I’d take a taxi over a random person who decided to drive Uber/Lyft to make a few extra bucks. Furthermore, taxi prices over last couple years are at or better compared to same Uber/Lyft ride. Lastly, the apps taxis have are effectively the same. Last time I was in PHX I scheduled a 4am taxi ride, got a text 30 minutes ahead to confirm, once driver was en-route received a text with link to a real time map tracking cars location to my destination. The experience is the same.
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