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Americans are rethinking where they want to live

economist.com

161–170 of 645 posts

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#161

It bodes poorly for the environment if people are increasingly moving from denser cities to sprawling suburbs. This is in many ways a self-inflicted problem of high-cost cities, but it should be a national priority to reverse this trend.

It's always crazy to hear that suburbs are cheaper. Dense living inherently requires less infrastructure and less transportation, so it should be considerably cheaper. It's only through the subsidisation of suburbia and the low supply/high demand of high density urban areas that this is the case. Car centric suburbs aren't just terrible for the environment, terrible for safety and terrible for transportation; they're…

maybe. There are very few city centres compared to city-not-centres by definition, but even so there is not much stopping us making a suburb the density of Chinatown. I wonder why we don't?

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#162
post #77

I live just west of Minneapolis with my wife in a house that's been in my family for generations. I don't want to leave but the continuous stream of car jackings, home invasions, petty theft and seemingly random acts of violence have me rethinking this. Calls to defund the police sound pretty tone deaf when your elderly neighbor is assaulted in their own home and robbed.

Counterpoint: we live in Edina, a nicer suburb just south of Minneapolis proper. No real crime except for a single hit-and-run by an out-of-towner in the last two years.

Walking distance to two grocery stores, several restaurants, and two malls. Affordable utilities and rent.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#163
post #108
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many like you are buying up lake-front properties in rural places. I recommend it, playing farmer-cowboy-houseboateer in Kentucky/Tennessee is a magnitude cheaper than out west, even if you fail, you are out less money than simply living elsewhere.

Just learn the accent before you move there, and don't tell your neighbors where you're from.

Sorry. Kentucky and Tennessee are full. Maybe try GA?

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#164
post #77

I live just west of Minneapolis with my wife in a house that's been in my family for generations. I don't want to leave but the continuous stream of car jackings, home invasions, petty theft and seemingly random acts of violence have me rethinking this. Calls to defund the police sound pretty tone deaf when your elderly neighbor is assaulted in their own home and robbed.

The point of the calls to defund the police is that the assault and robbery is a symptom of a wider systemic problem. Arresting and jailing the people who committed that particular assault and robbery is like taking a painkiller when you've got a gut wound. Sure, it'll let you ignore the pain for a while longer, but you're not addressing the real core of the problem.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#165
post #33

As an European, I love the American culture. But if you had the European standards on healthcare (The Spaniard one it's great), America would enter in a 2nd golden age.

You get good healthcare but only if you work for the right companies, meaning companies with good plans. My recent experience had me paying zero USD and dealing with almost zero paperwork. For a physical and the resulting outpatient surgery.

My company pays for the best healthcare money can buy.

It's still a miserable experience compared to what I was used to in Europe. So much bureaucracy and paperwork and it takes forever to get appointments.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#166
post #32

This article and similar ones have been written at least a 1000 times for the last decade with a clear political tinge. The poster child is always around how people want to move to Florida and Texas. But somehow it forgets to include Washington and Seattle which has probably seen the biggest tech migration and grown into the second biggest tech hub in the country, far greater than Austin or Miami (hyped up constantly…

For the most part that migration ended about 10 years ago. People are now moving away from there. Right now the hot spots are Idaho, Montana, Florida, Texas.

All of which are experiencing house prices in the last 5 years to shoot through the roof from what those people originally had. That said, Texas is huge so I'm really talking about Austin and 2 hour surrounding cities.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in the north suburbs of Milwaukee. Did you consider it? Outside of keeping your kids in the same schools (and the schools north of Milwaukee are great), it hits all the same marks and it’s a LOT cheaper.

I love visiting Milwaukee, and Wisconsin in general for the sheer amount of outdoor activities. Unfortunately it would send us the wrong direction with respect to visiting family. I want to spend less time in a car in general.

Have you considered remote/teleconference family visits? The last two years have shown that it's perfectly possible to lead a normal social life on Zoom, etc. There isn't really any need to get into a car and drive several hours just to see someone.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#168

> First, people have been leaving large, dense, expensive urban cores for smaller, less-dense cities and suburbs. Second, people and companies have been moving to warm, low-tax states in the South and Southwest. Seems like there could be a convergence of the demographic trend of millennial family formation with pandemic related increase in people's perception of the value of square footage that is pushing people towa…

> also could be a sign that, despite similar square footage, people don't see townhouses/apt housing product as the same sort of value as a detached house, and they are willing to make remarkable life changes to own a fee simple house proper. That seems unlikely since townhouses and the like have been quite popular in places outside the U.S. where they're reasonably common. Detached single homes are incompatible with…

> That seems unlikely since townhouses and the like have been quite popular in places outside the U.S.

I think it's should be pretty apparent that the US is fairly unique among other western democracies. I think a combination of "protestant work ethic" and "frontier spirit" are deeply ingrained in the culture here and have a lot of knock-on effects.

Having a "homestead" is a product of that.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#169
post #77

I live just west of Minneapolis with my wife in a house that's been in my family for generations. I don't want to leave but the continuous stream of car jackings, home invasions, petty theft and seemingly random acts of violence have me rethinking this. Calls to defund the police sound pretty tone deaf when your elderly neighbor is assaulted in their own home and robbed.

Counterpoint: we live in Edina, a nicer suburb just south of Minneapolis proper. No real crime except for a single hit-and-run by an out-of-towner in the last two years. Walking distance to two grocery stores, several restaurants, and two malls. Affordable utilities and rent.

There was a carjacking at the lunds in Edina two days ago.

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/edina-carjacking-v...

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#170

I've heard this brought up as a kind of second round of white flight. The middle- and upper-class (primarily) white population is once again moving out of urban centers because telecommuting is something that these high-salary jobs afford them. I think it will rebound a bit (but not much), as moving from urban to suburban is a very difficult transition, but its even harder going the other way once you've adjusted. I…

> and live off a VERY modest retirement (WELL under a million saved/invested) for the next 40 years

Do you mind sharing how much?

I'm curious why most people seem to think $1M is somehow not enough money to retire modestly on. If previous trends continue, you could easily live on >$4K after taxes per month indefinitely. That's almost 50% higher than median wage (after taxes). Median wage = ~$41,000. Even with $0 state tax, just after federal tax, you're at ~$30,000. At this income, you likely can't deduct more than the standard deduction...

It's just obvious that you CAN live on 50% more than median wage. Yet at the same time, so many people seem to think this is some absurd proposition.

Even at $500k - you can draw down the same amount for ~10 years, and then rely on SS (which would be much more modest - although, obviously still completely doable considering almost half the senior population does it).

Also - a lot of people still do something that makes money in retirement...

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