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AWS free tier data transfer expansion

aws.amazon.com

161–170 of 175 posts

Re: AWS free tier data transfer expansion

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> his entire liveihood and business runs on the fact that AWS pricing is not even remotely clear Corey's business exists because prevailing engineering culture encourages pretty much the entire industry to consider optimization as an afterthought, not because engineers can't understand AWS pricing, or interpret a few bar charts in Cost Explorer, and in the face of a deadline, if it's not on the agile board everyone k…

> Corey's business exists because prevailing engineering culture encourages pretty much the entire industry to consider optimization as an afterthought, not because engineers can't understand AWS pricing, or interpret a few bar charts in Cost Explorer, and in the face of a deadline, if it's not on the agile board everyone knows it doesn't exist. Nobody is actively encouraging the entire industry to consider optimizat…

> So why is cost optimization a constant point of conversation with AWS if it's so easy?

Limited IO bandwidth in middle and upper management alongside difficult schedules (we covered that one already). Take 2 steps above engineer on an org chart and detail becomes invisible, the vast majority of tasks begin to resemble a teenager at a mall with their dad's credit card. Meaningful technical validation phases are almost unheard of in many organizations, and largely antithetical to agile.

> Why do outfits like Digital Ocean advertise on the notion of clear billing as a positive differentiator compared to AWS?

Because they market to folk who never take the time to model comparative costs. In any project I considered them for (3 I think, > Nobody thinks of AWS as a security company

They're the only vendor I deal with who are on first name terms with the NSA and sell in tremendous quantities to the US government. CloudFlare on the other hand, to this day, default to MITMing SSL connections for new accounts and downgrading them to cleartext en route to the back end. It seems our perceptions differ wildly.

Re: AWS free tier data transfer expansion

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you be comfortable with losing all of your data and going down when the spend limit is hit? This doesn't feel to me like a generous enough statement about all of the finer points. Would i be okay with my servers no longer responding to web requests (or doing so with reduced port speeds with some of the above hosts, e.g. Time4VPS) in case of spending limits being unexpectedly hit? Yes, definitely, since my pro…

As long as you are paying by the minute for server time and by the byte-hour for storage, running out of money means you don't get any more minutes or any more byte-hours. No more server time means your servers just vanish into the ether. It doesn't mean they start returning error pages of being unable to write to the database. They don't reach into your servers and meddle with your nginx configuration. They don't sh…

> As long as you are paying by the minute for server time and by the byte-hour for storage, running out of money means you don't get any more minutes or any more byte-hours.

Exactly, that's why I said that being able to prepay for a month ahead (or a similar period) is a good thing, as is anything else that makes billing predictable (such as no auto scaling).

> No more server time means your servers just vanish into the ether. It doesn't mean they start returning error pages of being unable to write to the database.

Come to think of it, that's probably the case for most people out there who just use one account/card for all of their resources.

What i described is indeed possible with a tiered approach: alotting most of your funds to keeping the DBs alive with all of your data and whatever is left apart from that for the more dynamic components - VPSes that work as load balancers or others that host your APIs.

Of course, the ways to achieve something like that are plentiful, for example, multiple accounts with different virtual cards (which may or may not be allowed), using multiple different service providers for different parts of the system (e.g. if one has better storage plans and latency isn't an issue, for example, data centers in same country), using multiple service providers for redundancy (hard to do for most DBs, easier for container clusters) or even using functionality provided by the platforms themselves (which may or may not exist when it comes to billing, even though DigitalOcean had a pretty lovely way of grouping resources into projects).

Come to think of it, that's probably a space that could use a lot of improvements.

> They don't reach into your servers and meddle with your nginx configuration. They don't shrink your disk volumes to the amount that's already in use. That wouldn't be possible.

This isn't even necessary. If platforms allowed me to say: "Here's a bunch of API nodes that I'll give up to X$ for the following month and here's another DB node that I'll prepay in full with Y$ for the following month" then none of the other multi-cloud deployment strategies or tiering would even need to be considered.

If we want to consider situations with auto scaling or other types of dynamic billing, then we should also be able to say something along the lines of: "For those API nodes with my preconfigured init script, i want at least Z instances available with the given funds, whereas any remainder can be used up for autoscaling up to W total nodes. Thus, if the alotted funds run out, it all will return to the prepaid/reserved minimum of Z instances for the rest of the billing period."

AWS Lambda can charge you for usage at sub second resolutions and yet neither they nor other cloud platforms provide good resource prioritization solutions or fine grained billing limits, doing just alerts at best? I'm not sure why that is, but until things change, we'll just have to live with workarounds. Technically some of that would already be possible with something like Reserved Instances on AWS (https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/reserved-instances/), but that's still not granular enough IMO. Then you'd just have RIs and "everything else" as opposed to resource groups with spending limits.

Furthermore, if my Time4VPS server runs out of bandwidth, I'm not expected to pay more, the port speed just goes down until the end of the prepaid billing period. That's the sort of simplicity that's one of the best current options, with minimal hassles. And if i ever can't afford to renew 10 API servers, then I'll just get 5 or whatever amount i can afford.

More platforms should be like that, maybe at a day/hour/... resolution, though and with APIs that allow us to decide ourselves how often we want to renew services and for what periods, like a few clever scripts online that you can find for turning off AWS/other service instances when not in use. Currently any fine grained controls that you want on those platforms would have to be done programmatically, but it's not like you could easily manage ingress/egress costs that way.

Re: AWS free tier data transfer expansion

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you are paying by the minute for server time and by the byte-hour for storage, running out of money means you don't get any more minutes or any more byte-hours. No more server time means your servers just vanish into the ether. It doesn't mean they start returning error pages of being unable to write to the database. They don't reach into your servers and meddle with your nginx configuration. They don't sh…

> As long as you are paying by the minute for server time and by the byte-hour for storage, running out of money means you don't get any more minutes or any more byte-hours. Exactly, that's why I said that being able to prepay for a month ahead (or a similar period) is a good thing, as is anything else that makes billing predictable (such as no auto scaling). > No more server time means your servers just vanish into…

I think your line of thinking is rooted in the assumptions that these cloud services use the fact that they don't do what you describe as a ploy to make more money. Instead it's that they choose to invest in other kinds of functionality; while the concepts you describe are certainly possible to build, they are specifically demanded by a narrow subset of the market which makes them difficult to prioritize

Re: AWS free tier data transfer expansion

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as you are paying by the minute for server time and by the byte-hour for storage, running out of money means you don't get any more minutes or any more byte-hours. Exactly, that's why I said that being able to prepay for a month ahead (or a similar period) is a good thing, as is anything else that makes billing predictable (such as no auto scaling). > No more server time means your servers just vanish into…

I think your line of thinking is rooted in the assumptions that these cloud services use the fact that they don't do what you describe as a ploy to make more money. Instead it's that they choose to invest in other kinds of functionality; while the concepts you describe are certainly possible to build, they are specifically demanded by a narrow subset of the market which makes them difficult to prioritize

That's perfectly fair, then.

I'll simply use services that fall more in line with what i want and i urge others to do the same, to better suit their needs and avoid the possibility of some very unpleasant financial circumstances down the road, at least as far as personal projects are concerned. Hence the list of some lovely providers in the post above.

They'll simply continue to work with their current approaches to billing, missing out on the 0.01% (read: humorous made up figure to not create the impression that i believe that huge platforms should work like i expect them to, my ego isn't that huge) or so of additional income that they'd get by catering to all of the people like me in the world. That's the beauty of a (mostly) free market - supply and demand.

Re: AWS free tier data transfer expansion

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your line of thinking is rooted in the assumptions that these cloud services use the fact that they don't do what you describe as a ploy to make more money. Instead it's that they choose to invest in other kinds of functionality; while the concepts you describe are certainly possible to build, they are specifically demanded by a narrow subset of the market which makes them difficult to prioritize

That's perfectly fair, then. I'll simply use services that fall more in line with what i want and i urge others to do the same, to better suit their needs and avoid the possibility of some very unpleasant financial circumstances down the road, at least as far as personal projects are concerned. Hence the list of some lovely providers in the post above. They'll simply continue to work with their current approaches to…

It's definitely bigger than that as losing out on people like you means losing out on your future potential successes! So definitely important to keep this top of mind for those of us in the biz. It's one way to find competitive advantage in the growth funnel

Re: AWS free tier data transfer expansion

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be crystal crystal clear here. If I host a high data use video site on AWS, I can calculate what my costs will be. That provides me some certainty with respect to a business plan. Even better, AWS does have a history that is much better than others in terms of pricing stability. This doesn't mean best price. Can you say the same about cloudflare? No. Can you say the same about oracle? No - they have a miserable…

It is crystal clear that this comment validates the misunderstanding of how bandwidth is priced in the real world and how, just because Amazon's price model has been reliable, that it must be a viable cost because people pay it. It's unfortunate that the reality you're basing this comment on is so far off base that you've convinced yourself AWS egress fees are somehow "stable". It's also very interesting that you're…

"It is crystal clear that this comment validates the misunderstanding of how bandwidth is priced in the real world and how"

If you don't think AWS bandwidth pricing is something in the real world I don't know what to say :) AWS is now broken out in Amazon financials - worth a look to see what they are raking in and the margins they are getting in the real world :)

"Clear pricing you say? I'll use Corey Quinn (The Duckbill Group [0]) as an example again"

His entire business depends on the fact that AWS pricing is clear and public. For a service like cloudflare (ie, call for pricing / dealing with a salesperson trying to figure out how much they can squeeze you for on upfront or on renewal) this type of service is much harder.

In short, if your bill is too high, you can talk to someone like Corey and they can probably help you bring it down.

Re: AWS free tier data transfer expansion

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Oracle Cloud, and it's actually pretty nice and well-designed at least from my point of view. It gives the AWS Dashboard a run for their m̵o̵n̵e̵y̵ egress fees. But I still don't run anything important on it or push the limits of the free tier. Oracle doesn't have a good reputation. Also "Oracle Unbreakable Linux" is literally just RHEL rebranded, but it's not a community project and they don't like to ackn…

People have reported having their Oracle servers shut down without warning for the horrendous crime of... running IRC servers.

That's not an uncommon clause in terms of service; IRC servers tend to be DDoS magnets. Other common nonos are game servers and streaming hosts.

Hosting is one of those things you really ought to spend 10 minutes reading and find out what you are and are not allowed to do. It's basic due dilligence when you're renting someone else's hardware and bandwidth.

Re: AWS free tier data transfer expansion

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is crystal clear that this comment validates the misunderstanding of how bandwidth is priced in the real world and how, just because Amazon's price model has been reliable, that it must be a viable cost because people pay it. It's unfortunate that the reality you're basing this comment on is so far off base that you've convinced yourself AWS egress fees are somehow "stable". It's also very interesting that you're…

"It is crystal clear that this comment validates the misunderstanding of how bandwidth is priced in the real world and how" If you don't think AWS bandwidth pricing is something in the real world I don't know what to say :) AWS is now broken out in Amazon financials - worth a look to see what they are raking in and the margins they are getting in the real world :) "Clear pricing you say? I'll use Corey Quinn (The Duc…

> If you don't think AWS bandwidth pricing is something in the real world I don't know what to say :) AWS is now broken out in Amazon financials - worth a look to see what they are raking in and the margins they are getting in the real world :)

This comment confirms that you have a misunderstanding of how organizations can and have bought bandwidth via high-cap Internet offerings in the real world given how you've misunderstood my argument completely. My point is that organizations like AWS, Cloudflare, GCP, and many, many organizations around the world still buy Internet connectivity this way (directly). My unchanged statement, all along, has been regarding the egregious margins AWS makes on bandwidth that they charge for in a very asymmetric and oversubscribed manner. It's hard to have an conversation about these things when the basis for how businesses operate aren't understood by those making comments, unfortunately.

> His entire business depends on the fact that AWS pricing is clear and public.

I'm not sure how many enterprise agreements you've helped derive or review, but you can get agreed pricing from any cloud vendor - Cloudflare included. If you're spending any amount monthly beyond what appears to be a personal account this is not your issue.

Re: AWS free tier data transfer expansion

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corey's business exists because prevailing engineering culture encourages pretty much the entire industry to consider optimization as an afterthought, not because engineers can't understand AWS pricing, or interpret a few bar charts in Cost Explorer, and in the face of a deadline, if it's not on the agile board everyone knows it doesn't exist. Nobody is actively encouraging the entire industry to consider optimizat…

> So why is cost optimization a constant point of conversation with AWS if it's so easy? Limited IO bandwidth in middle and upper management alongside difficult schedules (we covered that one already). Take 2 steps above engineer on an org chart and detail becomes invisible, the vast majority of tasks begin to resemble a teenager at a mall with their dad's credit card. Meaningful technical validation phases are almos…

> Limited IO bandwidth in middle and upper management alongside difficult schedules (we covered that one already). Take 2 steps above engineer on an org chart and detail becomes invisible, the vast majority of tasks begin to resemble a teenager at a mall with their dad's credit card. Meaningful technical validation phases are almost unheard of in many organizations, and largely antithetical to agile.

I'm sorry, but what are you trying to say? "Antithetical to agile" - is there a point beyond some non-nonsensical, made up scenario? Every major organization with a cloud budget cares about optimization today at some level. This hasn't changed in over 20 years because those budget dollars used to be directed at data center costs. Now they're more fluid and can be more impactful when people make mistakes or aren't making sure to optimize up front.

> Because they market to folk who never take the time to model comparative costs. In any project I considered them for (3 I think, Then share some examples from said "spreadsheets". Because for straight instance pricing DO beats AWS pricing in most every way. This is one of a handful of bread and butter services AWS offers (lift and shift compute). DO also does, most often, better with respect to performance (CPU/compute) when comparing directly [0][1][2][3]. This calculator [4] at DO showcases cost comparisons across all major cloud vendors and I've validated comparison in the last month with AWS - the prices check out.

> They're the only vendor I deal with who are on first name terms with the NSA and sell in tremendous quantities to the US government.

This is a rather naive comment. I happen to work in the security industry and every cloud vendor has direct ties to 3 letter agencies - that's not at all unique to AWS. Sorry to burst your bubble, but also every notable security player in the industry has similar relationships. It's not unique. It's also more advantageous for the three letter agencies in many of those relationships. Also, AWS, along with everyone else - has relationships in security information sharing for verticals. So, yes, AWS is part of FS-ISAC, as one example. Just. Like. Everyone. Else.

[0] https://www.vpsbenchmarks.com/compare/docean_vs_ec2 [1] https://www.bunnyshell.com/blog/aws-google-cloud-azure-digit... [2] https://www.digitalocean.com/resources/cloud-performance-rep... [3] https://www.upguard.com/blog/digitalocean-vs-aws [4] https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/calculator/

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