TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana) • Hacker News Board

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#161

Post by jsmith45 » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

Macha wrote: post #124

djyaz1200 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good explanation of why some people perceive NFT's to have value, setting aside if they do or not. The people who believe they have value I think expect at some point a business model will emerge to provide them with income for access to the "art" they "own". The way to make a business model is to associate copyright ownership with the NFT ownership and then assert those rights by filing DMCA takedowns (and…

> The way to make a business model is to associate copyright ownership with the NFT ownership and then assert those rights by filing DMCA takedowns (and/or lawsuits) everyday to anyone who displays the "art" without paying for the privilege and using the NFT owners original work as the source file. The issue is you need the legal process to tie ownership of the NFT to ownership/transferrable license/whatever of the w…

Right. If the issue is that you don't trust a government enough to allow them to track ownership via updating the copyright registration, then relying on them to help enforce your digital scarcity.

In reality the only digital scarcity that NFTs directly create is the scaricty of the token itself. Which is fine, and could potentially be used for interesting purposes. One problem is that they pretty much always require off-blockchain knowledge of which contract is the correct one for the purpose.

The other problem is that most plausible useful purposes I've seen discussed (like tracking "ownership" of digital items in a video game) could work just fine as a centralized database.

I've yet to see a proposed practical use (not "art") of NFTs where all participants are sufficently mutually distrustful that a central database cannot be used. There may well exist such uses, and those might be worth getting excited about.

As for the "art", well digital money laundering schemes just don't cut it for me. Like literally: selling some shitty tokens and buying it using other accounts you own, is a great way to provide an explanation for crypto you acquired from some illegal trade or whatever. If anybody asks where you got the crypto from, you can point to your NFTs, and explain that you are just as shocked as everybody else at how much people are willing to buy this stuff for.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#162

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

Uehreka wrote: post #95

theshadowknows wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes a lot of sense, and thanks for the detailed answers. The age old "this isn't for you" is applicable here...I don't see the value personally, but I understand the motivation behind it..sort of like how I don't mind streaming music vs "owning" a digital copy of it as .mp3 or whatever.

> the age old “this isn’t for you” is applicable here I disagree. When people are going around calling this a revolution that will change the fabric of society, they can’t just revert to “maybe it’s just not for you” when they have trouble explaining it or defending it. Either this is revolutionary or it’s a niche thing, but it can’t be both.

[deleted]

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#163

Post by jimmaswell » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #30

chrisco255 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can screenshot the Mona Lisa or print out a signed Mickey Mantle rookie card, but it's not the same thing is it? The verifiable timestamp and record of account associated with a wallet address (public key) that is known to be associated with the artist that produced the work is the same as establishing physical provenance for a unique item. And as for value goes, NFTs are far more liquid than physical art wo…

> The verifiable timestamp and record of account associated with a wallet address (public key) that is known to be associated with the artist that produced the work is the same as establishing physical provenance for a unique item. Not really. In your Mona Lisa example, an NFT would be more like a blockchain based ticket to the Louvre that has a link to a Mona Lisa JPEG. That’s the mismatch in NFT discussions: The be…

> NFTs aren’t the artwork. They’re a fancy crypto receipt that says “I paid X amount to someone and we agreed that transaction had a link to this specific JPEG”. You can technically go into the blockchain and confirm that your receipt was the first, but there’s nothing stopping anyone else from making another NFT of the Mona Lisa and selling it.

A bill of sale to the rights to a musical recording is just a receipt and doesn't physically stop anyone from violating copyright, sure. This isn't new. People commission artwork and buy the rights to it all the time. What's new is simply the mechanism being put on a blockchain. I don't get what's so inherently crazy or a scam about that. Furry "adoptables" would map very easily onto NFTs.

NFTs for things you don't own are more silly novelties or scams, but we've always had bridge sellers.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#164

Post by clippablematt » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

theshadowknows wrote: post #11

I used to come onto HN and see crypto-coin news and I'd jump into the comments and ask something along the lines of "But isn't bitcoin and all the other things like it just a giant scam?" and someone who believed in Bitcoin to be a transformative technology would jump in and explain the real potential. I personally still think it's sort of a scam, but I'm happy for all of the people who used it to get rich....so, alo…

People focus on the money, so walk away thinking “scam”.

Legitimacy, reputation, community. These things are scarce and important.

People like nfts. It’s pretty fun minting an nft on my own contract, then going to opensea and connecting my wallet and there it is. Then I go to Zora and connect, and there’s my files again. Then to showtime, still there. Open rainbow on my phone, everything goes with me.

Add on top of that resales, a royalty system, access keys to discord channels and tv shows, programmability so I can plug together my files however I like. Maybe I add a rule that you have to share the file with other people or it self destructs. Or you have to pet it like a tamagotchi.

All of the content is still freely accessible. NFT != DRM. So I can listen to all the music and see all the art. And I can have ownership of the things that are special to me. I spend 12hours a day on computers, why would we think digital artefact shouldn’t be valuable. Why would we think people wouldn’t want to belong to clubs and have a way of showing ownership of items relating to them. With a consistent way of referencing the data and signatures. All on the same api.

Yeah you could use pgp and share torrents and pay artists over Patreon.

But this is easier, faster, and more fun.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#165

Post by jcranmer » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

djyaz1200 wrote: post #69

ahelwer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I can explain. I understand why others value them, although I don't agree with the valuation (as a litmus test, I also think shelling out $30k for a genuine Rolex is very stupid). My lack of agreement also does not prevent me from participating and profiting off the people who think they do have value, although I have not done so. There are basically two theories of their value: the collectible theory and the…

This is a good explanation of why some people perceive NFT's to have value, setting aside if they do or not. The people who believe they have value I think expect at some point a business model will emerge to provide them with income for access to the "art" they "own". The way to make a business model is to associate copyright ownership with the NFT ownership and then assert those rights by filing DMCA takedowns (and…

> The way to make a business model is to associate copyright ownership with the NFT ownership

Except I believe most NFT contracts don't actually grant copyright ownership, only the kind of standard copyright license-to-use grant you see in most terms of service.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#166

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

jensensbutton wrote: post #68

ahelwer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I can explain. I understand why others value them, although I don't agree with the valuation (as a litmus test, I also think shelling out $30k for a genuine Rolex is very stupid). My lack of agreement also does not prevent me from participating and profiting off the people who think they do have value, although I have not done so. There are basically two theories of their value: the collectible theory and the…

> storage, fakes, and transaction costs. NFTs solve all three NFTs solve none of these problems. The underlying asset is not stored on the blockchain and can be deleted at any time. Fakes are unaddressed since you can only validate you are the owner of a specific url and there's no guarantee that what you own is the original version (bytes are easy to copy). Any validation of authenticity must happen OFF of the block…

[deleted]

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#167

Post by programmarchy » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

neilalexander wrote: post #154

willio58 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is the thing. You can’t prove ownership if you copy paste a jpeg or a url. You prove ownership with the blockchain.

The blockchain tells you that you "own" whatever was at the URL at the point of time that it was written onto the chain. There is no continuing or on-going guarantee that the content at the URL won't change after that. If there is no content hash in the receipt and the original URL is now defunct, how do you prove authenticity?

One way would be to store a hash of the content at that URL with the NFT, but there's actually a better way. IPFS supports the concept of immutability [1], so you could just use an IPFS URL with a content identifier. It also allows for revisions linked to the original content identifier.

[1] https://docs.ipfs.io/concepts/immutability/

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#168

Post by mythz » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #143

mythz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is running the same scam as buying a Star [1], except it's done on a blockchain selling to greater fools who are being promised of untold riches that will come their way from buying a row in a database containing a link to a CDN [1] https://twitter.com/smdiehl/status/1445795674696597506

The problem with "buying a star" or selling a star is there really is no provenance for it. Your bank account is simply a row in a Cobol database managed by some archaic institution. Your stocks in your Robinhood app are the same. You seem to be demeaning the value of database records when so much of the world economy is merely that.

> Your bank account is simply a row in a Cobol database managed by some archaic institution.

My bank is managing my real cash money account, which has real utility that can be used to purchase tangible assets like the property that houses my family.

Your NFT is a worthless forgotten entry buried in a DB of a URL pointing to a public image (everyone has access to, but no one else had to trade real money for) that will become a broken link when this pyramid scam collapses vaporizing every dollar that remained invested in it.

If I'm demeaning of anything, it's all the astroturfers, spam bots and scammers trying to hype up this fake FOMO market that is being marketed to greater fools (who aren't aware of what they're actually buying) as their next source of crypto wave riches they missed out by hearing about BTC too late.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#169

Post by micromacrofoot » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

KZerda wrote: post #56

micromacrofoot wrote: post #3

yeah but only I have the certificate of authenticity

You have a url that purports to be a certificate of authenticity. What happens to that certificate of authenticity when the site goes down, or gets sold to someone who decides to replace all the images there with poop emojis?

Same thing that happens to all my art when my house burns down

I don't like NFTs personally (wasteful, scam-ridden, investor bro culture), but if you compare them to how art has worked for the past century (or more) it's not so different. If you own a Banksy the certificate of authenticity is far more valuable than the actual artwork, which is easily reproduced. It's all kind of silly.

Re: TheNFTbay.org – The Billion Dollar Torrent (All NFT's from Ethereum and Solana)

#170

Post by superbaconman » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 3:43 PM UTC

singularity2001 wrote: post #78

Ignorant question: Can downloading the torrent result in charges of 'digital theft' and given the 'value' of the file result in a felony?

No, because you wouldn't have actually stolen anything. The content of nfts are public; they kinda have to be to live on the Blockchain. You actually need the wallet that owns the nft in order to prove ownership. In other words, you have to steal someone's wallet to take their nfts.