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Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

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161–170 of 199 posts

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#161

The bureaucrats that have been responsible for the questionable approach Sweden has followed are currently fighting like a cornered cat to avoid any and all accountability. So this 'message' fits the narrative well. The prime minister has stepped down and left the reigns to someone else this week. The responsible for the health authorities has started his pension a week or two ago. Both conveniently around the same t…

> The state epidemiologist, Dr. Tengele, sorry, Dr. Tegnell

Do you honestly expect anyone to take you seriously when you compare someone to a Nazi war criminal?

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even then it's not an issue-free baseline. How many people died because they couldn't use the roads, either directly (get to help) or indirectly (delivery of inputs that prevented a death)? Covid is even harder to measure. One Example: You shut down elementary schools to prevent kids from getting infected; how many were pushed back into broken homes from the only safe space they had? How many will have long-term pain…

It’s surprising how many people think about lockdowns as some kind of a 1h drill. Kids, and many people for that matter, cannot just stay in lockdown for months like domestic cats without triggering mental health issues.

And going out of lockdown you get things like a spiking of RSV infections (in turn apparently enough to noticeably fill up children's hospitals in some countries) because kids are now "catching up" in one go with all the infections they normally would have had spread out over the course of the last year or two.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#163
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are most of the ones that end up in your hospitals and die unvaccinated? If so, vaccination is worth it.

Now that you mention it, they post a lot of covid statistics daily in the media here, but none of them are 'How many of new infections are vaccinated people'.

They are with holding the hard data, apparently for privacy concerns.. How ironic.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#164
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In considering areas, are you including vaccination rates? https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-st... CA, OR, and WA have better rates than many places, and the North East is by far the most vaccinated area of the country.

How about Vermont? Their 7day COVID rate is high (53 per 100k), and they are the highest vaccinated rate in the continental US. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/corona... For OR, I understand that they had a warm summer and spiked this summer already and are trending down now. https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spr...

While it is disappointing that there are cases rising in those places, hospitalizations are remaining constant, which is a good sign. Hopefully it means that even if there are break through cases, it will continue to mean that fewer people are getting severe cases.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly one predicates the other (i.e., there's no economy without humanity) and it's quite impractical for humanity to exist at any scale without trade, but whether it makes sense to sacrifice human life for 'the greater good of the economy' or to sacrifice economic function for 'the greater good of humanity' entails a moral choice

Technically you can have economies that don't operate with money; economies are just a (not necessarily good) quantitative lens to analyze human behavior.

I never made an assertion to the contrary, but I think economies are also useful for permitting specialization (and hence supply chains, to create more complex goods) and amortizing local disruptions to supply (e.g. food stores, trade) and probably a bunch of other useful things. They can also enable large scale waste, environmental destruction, debt traps, extreme inequality etc

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#166
post #86
post #3

There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…

Here are the results comparing NY Deaths per Million to a "similar" neighbor in the North East [1] New York 2920 Vermont 620 They are 5 times worse! New York's decision to have a more urban population is completely unjustifiable. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi...

Given the same data I'm fairly sure this proves millionaires are responsible for so many dying.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#167
post #54

I wish there would be more talk about the other side of Covid: the people suffering of various long term post-covid problems. I think this will be the high price that Sweden really will have to pay in the long run.

What's your take on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29165961 ?

Plenty of comments in that post that don't agree.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should an economy serve humanity or should humanity serve the economy? It's largely a moral choice, but how a population answers it determines their political response

In modern times, you serve an economy because if you don't, you starve. This isn't star trek socialism. It's a survival of the fittest environment. The government stepping in and saying "NOPE! WE KNOW BEST!" and then basically forcing every citizen to restructure their lives for something that couldn't even remotely be contained just shows the abuse of power. Even among private institutions. Look how many took advant…

> you serve an economy because if you don't, you starve

Sounds like a problem with the economy. Economies are human constructs. With enough consensus they can be shaped in different ways. Quantitive easing is one instrument, but still very much within the rules. The rules can be bent further with consensus

> The government stepping in and saying "NOPE! WE KNOW BEST!" and then basically forcing every citizen to restructure their lives for something that couldn't even remotely be contained just shows the abuse of power.

Mask mandates and lockdowns in some western democracies outside of the US have worked exceedingly well, but they by-in-large had less quarrelsome (and smaller) populations

> The majority of the COVID deaths can be attributed to the old, obese, and sickly people. But most institutions serve people outside of that set.

It seems you largely agree that there's a moral dimension here. You may not agree there's malleability to how an economy functions - but once again, economies are a part of the social compact. If people decide that their parents, their kids' grandparents, the immunocompromised, etc. are worth saving, they may hold a different view than sheer social darwinism

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically you can have economies that don't operate with money; economies are just a (not necessarily good) quantitative lens to analyze human behavior.

I never made an assertion to the contrary, but I think economies are also useful for permitting specialization (and hence supply chains, to create more complex goods) and amortizing local disruptions to supply (e.g. food stores, trade) and probably a bunch of other useful things. They can also enable large scale waste, environmental destruction, debt traps, extreme inequality etc

No you're still misunderstanding. Even in for example, a super primitive society, there are, say "obligation economies" that exist even though nobody inside the society is using it to understand their situation. Likewise, in a modern society there are economies of waste, economies of environmental destruction etc. The "economies" are just quantitative frameworks for understanding human interaction.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#170
post #21
post #3

There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…

Sweden is more comparable to Germany in population structure. Especially Norway and Finland are completely different. Have a look here (tone is satirical) for a comparison of Sweden's and Germany's graphs: https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2021/11/12/wear-a-mask-and... Germany's numbers are exploding right now. In the U.S. you could also compare New York and Vermont. New York was more like Sweden (not by choice, but…

There is this theory about pockets of herd immunity being formed after massive infection waves. These tend to be formed in a period of 2-3 months and with new infections dropping radically afterwards. Certain regions in India are now a perfect example.
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