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Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

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Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#161
post #118

Am I the only one? Next just bought its biggest upcoming competitor—SvelteKit. Next is the best that React has to offer but it still has flaws. Svelte and SvelteKit are so awesome you cannot believe it before you've built something bigger and so much ahead of the entire React ecosystem. We migrated a huge/complex React app in a month and the difference is night and day (performance/bundle size/dev productivity). Reac…

We're all lucky that you got a polite, substantive reply, but please don't cross into personal attack like this in HN comments. It generally causes discussion quality to tank drastically.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#162
post #90

This is such great news! I've been vaguely aware of svelte for some time now but it wasn't until a few months ago that I started using it professionally and it is such a joy to use! I recently did an onboarding and explained why svelte instead of react of vue, and svelte code, to me, is so much more intuitive and clean! Thanks for the awesome work Rich and best of luck in this new chapter!

I'd like to hear more. What were your conclusions? I'm particularly interested in it compared to Vue.

I picked Vue because of most people's complaints about React, so most of the comments I'm seeing are about specific gripes with React and don't really help me make an informed opinion.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#163
post #132
post #118

Am I the only one? Next just bought its biggest upcoming competitor—SvelteKit. Next is the best that React has to offer but it still has flaws. Svelte and SvelteKit are so awesome you cannot believe it before you've built something bigger and so much ahead of the entire React ecosystem. We migrated a huge/complex React app in a month and the difference is night and day (performance/bundle size/dev productivity). Reac…

> I'm disappointed by Rich. Instead of thinking bigger, raising money (it would have been so easy, Rich, instead of doing proud conference talk after talk why didn't you talk to a VC??)—he just cashed out (sky-high compensation and ESOP). I lost all my respect. Not a rant to give you some background, one major reason we went with SvelteKit was not to rely on the Next team. And now, I am again with them. Who the hell…

Please don't respond to something bad by breaking the site guidelines yourself. It only makes things worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: your account has unfortunately been posting a lot of unsubstantive comments. Worse, we've had to ask you many times not to break the site guidelines. I don't want to ban you, so could you please review the rules and fix this?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27867817 (July 2021)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27610150 (June 2021)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26683075 (April 2021)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25453716 (Dec 2020)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24445333 (Sept 2020)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24413377 (Sept 2020)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23388036 (June 2020)

We're really trying for a different sort of internet forum here, and we need everyone to pull in the same direction to have a chance of that working in the long run. The default is deterioration, followed by scorched earth, followed by heat death. We're trying to stave that off here, at least for a while longer: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so....

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#165

Awesome news! Having worked with frontend frameworks for years, I've grown pessimistic about them in general, but I'm enthusiastic about Svelte because it does so many things right that actually avoid a lot of the issues other frameworks claim to solve but actually make worse. Interacting with the Svelte compiler is ridiculously easy. Though the documentation can be improved, I found it trivial to import the Svelte c…

I'm definitely curious about it. I'm one of those "swore off frontend framework" people who's attracted to tools like Phoenix Liveview so I never have to deal with it. Svelte does look pretty sharp and simple though. I wonder how well it works with something like LiveView? Does it really depend on the styling structure mentioned or can I use it with Tailwind?

It works great with Tailwind, I’m doing that in a project right now. I haven’t tried pairing Svelte with LiveView and I’d worry they would end up fighting over elements of the page, but I’d think you could have them control separate parts of the same page, or have them controlling distinct pages just fine.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#167
post #118

Am I the only one? Next just bought its biggest upcoming competitor—SvelteKit. Next is the best that React has to offer but it still has flaws. Svelte and SvelteKit are so awesome you cannot believe it before you've built something bigger and so much ahead of the entire React ecosystem. We migrated a huge/complex React app in a month and the difference is night and day (performance/bundle size/dev productivity). Reac…

I understand this perspective! But as anyone who knows me will tell you, I would be the worst person in the world to try and build a business around Svelte. As others have said, the expectations from investors would make it far less likely that Svelte could remain a community-centric project. It's important to clarify that Vercel (which has earned its open source bona fides) hasn't 'bought' Svelte or SvelteKit. It's…

Rich, I know where you come from, and I wholeheartedly believe what you say. But this is just the start of a relationship between you and Vercel. And you know that relationships will change over time and so on. And you won't.be.independent. There is just too much money on the table. Nobody will give you orders, there are much smarter ways.

The point is, Vercel did everything right, no blame to them, great CEO, awesome Tim, they are masterminds and their great social media army does their best to celebrate this event in all social networks atm. But you know yourself very well that one player just left the market. We will face less competition and possibly stagnation in some areas. This doesn't hurt Vercel nor you but us.

Ofc you will be dependent, they pay you, you want Vercel to be successful (ESOP). We will see, e.g. that Vercel will be a first-class citizen as deployment option. There are many more fields where Vercel can/will get a special treatment, so subtly that nobody will get it. Business is more sophisticated than many might think.

Or think this the way around, there endless possibilities to drive somebody down, demotivate and degenerate him to a point where he looses all his drive and motivation. Look at yourself today, look how much energy and charisma you have when holding speeches about Svelte. In 2 years, go back to this comment and ask yourself if you are the same energetic Rich, if you are happy and if sold out too early 2 year ago.

> I would be the worst person in the world to try and build a business around Svelte.

No you just underestimate yourself. What are you doing right now? Giving talks, writing, communicating. People, masses follow you not just because Svelte is great, no because you can communicate well and know how to lead people. This is what a CEO is doing 99% of his day. This is building a business, communicating, finding and winning the best people.

You found already the best people, just look in your repos and look which contributors work for Svelte! And you were the leader, had an as good team as Vercel and follow now...

And if I watch you talking there is a strong desire to be more (not that a dev is less!). Whatever, I'd have expected that you at least went shopping with Vercel's offer to CloudFlare. I mean they do real rocket science (Durable Objects) and you opt for Next which started to renovate their stack (esm, swc) just recently after years.

Oh man, I like you too much to be too angry but yeah, not happy.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#168
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, rewriting it with Electron + Svelte + a Rust backend for the heavy lifting. I looked at alternatives to Electron because I wanted to avoid the bloat, but nothing felt like the right fit. Tauri ( https://tauri.studio/ ) is the most exciting, but I couldn't find a good way to get raw video frames into the UI without a bunch of expensive copies or serialization. I also looked at native toolkits like Qt (I've worke…

React-native might be the close to what you're looking for at the moment. But the ecosystem is still tiny on Desktop, and I don't think it supports desktop linux at all.

Yeah I looked at it briefly but the lack of usage was a bit of a worry. And if I’m honest I really wanted a chance to use Svelte :)

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird because this is the exact opposite of everything I hear from most developers I know. I personally also worked with React Native for a while, and sure, you can write native extensions for everything, but the biggest complaint is how fickle it is when it comes to upgrading, package management, mind boggling errors related to the metro bundler, etc. I.E. It's great when it works and you have something simple, but…

react native can definitely ship production ready applications that large teams work on. bundler problems arent even react native related.. theyre webpack/babel etc. Package management? how is that related to RN?

Because you never have to deal with that stuff in mobile apps unless you use react native? So sure maybe it’s not directly react native’s fault but it is an issue.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#170
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this topic is worth our time to debate. There are millions of ways of subtly controlling/influencing entities. And it's much easier if you pay money, ESOP and pay even more money if future goals and exits come alive.

Even if Vercel came out and said “we’ve bought Rich Harris’s voice, every choice will be controlled by us” (which they haven’t!) they still wouldn’t control the project because Rich isn’t a BDFL.

Good point and I agree about Rich but I rather trust healthy markets and competition more than people.
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