Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 386 posts

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#161

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

mywittyname wrote: post #60
nostromo wrote: post #8

We need a Supreme Court ruling or law that says if the government doesn’t have a warrant to collect your data, they also can’t buy it from third parties. We also need privacy protections so these companies wouldn’t exist in the first place.

We can't rely on SCOTUS to make this ruling for another 50+ years, so our best hope is to start with state legislators. The majority of law enforcement happens at a state level, and most state legislators aren't as hamstrung as the federal one is, so this is the easiest way to achieve the most impactful results. Also, POTUS is in charge of most federal law enforcement agencies. So it might be possible to handle this…

We just need members of Congress to have embarrassing info or evidence of criminality exposed by data broker collection. Then they'll seal everything up like with video rental records.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#162

Post by sennight »

baldeagle wrote: post #47
VRay wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private companies (theoretically/ideally) don't have the power of life and death over you

Like literally, the amount of instances where the government is weighing life/death is very small, even smaller at the federal level (most death penalty cases are against state laws). If you're meaning in the 'government programs can greatly affect my quality of life', then private companies can totally do that too - through targeted advertising.

Like literally, that is the basis for state power - several iterations of "...or else" finally end with "we kill you". Private companies don't enjoy that privilege - because they don't have the power to distinguish murder from justifiable homicide.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#163

Post by nescioquid »

baldeagle wrote: post #47
VRay wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private companies (theoretically/ideally) don't have the power of life and death over you

Like literally, the amount of instances where the government is weighing life/death is very small, even smaller at the federal level (most death penalty cases are against state laws). If you're meaning in the 'government programs can greatly affect my quality of life', then private companies can totally do that too - through targeted advertising.

That the government has power over you at all is what matters, not how often it exercises that power against you. Already parallel case construction is a troubling problem (given the warrantless domestic surveillance). Grant the government access to surveillance capitalism / ad tech, and now you've got another vector to launder evidence.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#164

Post by jasonfarnon »

motohagiography wrote: post #32

If one sees the U.S. constitution and its amendments merely as dated conventions, there is no reason for the IRS and other agencies not to leverage tech to drive enforcement numbers, and for the agencies themselves to just become the policy levers they want to have. However, there are others who believe the rules are in place to prevent this precise type of eventuality, where a technological change shifts the balance…

"I think a generation of people who believe the former statement have taken control of institutions" I think the cause and effect are backwards here. It is their having taken control of institutions that makes individuals less likely to take seriously the spirit of pesky constitutional protections. Which was of course foreseen by the founding fathers.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#165

Post by literallyaduck »

Don't like it? Organizations like the EFF have been working to stop overreach:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/01/eff-fincen-stop-pushin...

You can help financially, and contact each of your representatives and senators and request they act to stop this end run around the constitution.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#166

Post by aspenmayer »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #89
aspenmayer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failure to navigate a capitalist system of hoop-jumping due to lack of funds causes a self-fulfilling prophesy of poor performance at said hoop-jumping and associated poor credit scores. Blaming the victim comes to mind.

If I only pay my bills on time does my credit score go up in the US? Asking because I don't know, but if that is the case, not sure why you can call it 'hoop jumping'. I don't care for the credit companies, they're total scum. But I'm not sure how to do anything better.

Try to build credit with a secured credit card and on a minimum wage. Decide which bills you have to pay late this pay period. After years of this, you’ll be lucky if you can convert to an unsecured credit card, let alone maintain your (low) credit score, let alone improve it.

Most folks in US can’t even afford a $400 emergency expense. Good luck doing even that when your credit is maxed out and your car breaks down so you can’t work.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#167

Post by drunkpotato »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #55
kelnos wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we need to understand the purpose of the data collection and what bad things might happen because of it. If Treasury is using this data to catch people who violate economic sanctions, ok. If the IRS is using this data to catch people who cheat on their taxes, ok. I don't love either of those things, but they are using the data only to do things that have been defined as their job to do for a long time now. Th…

>> There doesn't seem to be any evidence that any of this data is going to be used to penalize people financially/economically for "social infractions" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

The IRS did nothing wrong here, and it certainly is not an example of the IRS penalizing people for social infractions. As with any movement with lots of money and momentum and rapidly gaining popularity, there were a lot of fraudsters capitalizing on the Tea Party movement's name and engaging in shady tax dodging practices. The IRS was correct to subject them to increased scrutiny.

In terms of the facts involved, this has nothing to do with China's social credit score. Note that I am strictly talking about the facts involved, not the political fallout and usual bloviating.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#168

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

Sevastopol wrote: post #29
AlexandrB wrote: post #9

This is not a new take, but I think "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. It's just distributed among a range of private companies and accessed via subpoena or contract. The fact that the government doesn't operate most of it directly is largely irrelevant to those negatively affected by it and in some ways makes the situation worse (who do you even contact to correct inaccura…

> "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. China's social credit system allegedly assigns (or will assign?) all citizens scores and punishes them for social wrongdoings. The IRS has always been tasked with auditing and catching tax cheats, the Treasury always went after people who violate economic sanctions. What's the similarity other than data collection?

> What's the similarity

Wasn't there some kerfuffle a few years ago about "special attention" being given to political targets?

(Cue Richelieu's "six lines")

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#169

Post by saintsmeeze »

baldeagle wrote: post #47
VRay wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private companies (theoretically/ideally) don't have the power of life and death over you

Like literally, the amount of instances where the government is weighing life/death is very small, even smaller at the federal level (most death penalty cases are against state laws). If you're meaning in the 'government programs can greatly affect my quality of life', then private companies can totally do that too - through targeted advertising.

I'm not sure if this is satire/sarcasm. Are you comparing the power to imprison people with targeted advertising?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#170

Post by LogonType10 »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #168
Sevastopol wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. China's social credit system allegedly assigns (or will assign?) all citizens scores and punishes them for social wrongdoings. The IRS has always been tasked with auditing and catching tax cheats, the Treasury always went after people who violate economic sanctions. What's the similarity other than data collection?

> What's the similarity Wasn't there some kerfuffle a few years ago about "special attention" being given to political targets? (Cue Richelieu's "six lines")

The fact that we were allowed to discuss and protest this "special attention" shows that we are a far, far ways away from China's Social Credit system.
Post reply on HN