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Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

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Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#161

To be fair, it is quite murky to what extent groups like Al-Haq are associated with the PFLP (which, with its history of aircraft hijackings and suicide bombings, is undoubtedly a terrorist group). There is plenty of purported evidence of financial and personnel links out there, and I really doubt HN is the right forum to decide either way (unless someone is an expert).

Unless you count the oddly vague couple admissions extracted under torture from some random accountants as evidence of something, which you shouldn't because torture is not and shouldn't ever be considered a valid way to extract actionable information, being "fair" has nothing to do with what is being done here.

There is no evidence of torture whatsoever. This is a strange lie you keep posting with your link to 972mag, a biased Palestinian defense magazine.

If you dig a little deeper at what the actual accountant's lawyer said - he said his client was seated in a chair with his hands tied behind his back during his initial arrest. Inventing a new name ("The shabah position") doesn't make it torture.

Obviously the lawyer wants to protect his client from retribution from Al-Haq, so he will make outlandish accusations of "torture". I don't blame him - I'd be afraid of Al-Haq too after testifying against them.

...but remember that both accountants provided detailed testimony in an open court room - not from a torture chamber. Your claims torture are false.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#162
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever wondered why those people are protesting? If you only follow the history of the region you’d quickly realize that Israel did (and does) terrorize their neighbors who in turn retaliated and the vicious cycle of vendettas on eachother continues to this day. What is realy cool about Israel is that they’re a democratic country and a large part of their country denounces all this violence, there is a way forward towa…

1) Molotov != Protest 2) > follow the history of the region > terrorize their neighbors Counter example: 2005: Israel unilateral dismantling of the 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza 2007: Gaza Blockade I do not think we see the history of the region in the same way.

> 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza

As you mention Hamas, it gives me the opportunity to point out that Israel bankrolled Hamas founder Sheikh Yassin even prior to the founding of Hamas. This was admitted by former military governor of Gaza Yitzhak Segev and other Israeli government and military officials. Israel wanted to undermine secular political Palestinians and empower Islamist political Palestinians. Once successful, they bemoan that the Islamists they funded and worked to empower, have come to power.

Incidentally, the EU funded NGOs which Israel are spying on here are mostly secular (and even the militant groups which Israel is claiming the NGOs are affiliated with are secular as well).

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#163
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is undoubtedly false. Speaking of "purported evidence" when there is literally no credible evidence submitted by the Israeli government for these allegations is misleading at best. Their whole case rests on the testimony of two Palestinian accountants, likely attained by torture, that worked for two organizations that were not included in the list of six [1]. They merely state it is "general knowledge" that thes…

Looking around, you can quickly find, that `Shawan Jabarin` the general director of Al-Haq (which was banned) was convicted in 1985 of recruiting and arranging training for members for PFLP and was called “Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde,” by the Israeli Supreme Court in 2007 for being a human rights campaigner by day and a terrorist by night. Also, HRW statement should be taken with a grain of salt, since they have conflict o…

He was part of a student group that was associated with the PFLP, which is labeled a terrorist group and has done violent acts, and was convicted on that basis.

You know who else this sort of indict applies to? Nelson Mandela and his involvement with the ANC.

Nevermind that I don't trust the Israeli legal system that existed in the 80s to give a fair shake to a Palestinian student activist.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#164
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel, a country that terrorizes Palestinians on the daily accuses everyone that fights it as terrorists. Maybe some are, but I think our minds should be initialized to “given the terror you consciously and actively spread, please provide evidence for any terrorist accusations”.

> Israel, a country that terrorizes Palestinians on the daily accuses They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. > accuses everyone that fights it as terrorists. If they hurt bystanding civilians (and they do) or funnel money for it (and they do) there is nothing wrong with that. > Maybe some are They are, Hamas, Hezbolla…

> They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized.

Is it a police operation if it is conducted in occupied foreign territory or would that count as military action?

> They are, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and many more... not some and not maybe.

Is every Palestinian who voted for Hamas in the last elections permitted in Palestine in 2006 a terrorist as well?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#165
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you count the oddly vague couple admissions extracted under torture from some random accountants as evidence of something, which you shouldn't because torture is not and shouldn't ever be considered a valid way to extract actionable information, being "fair" has nothing to do with what is being done here.

There is no evidence of torture whatsoever. This is a strange lie you keep posting with your link to 972mag, a biased Palestinian defense magazine. If you dig a little deeper at what the actual accountant's lawyer said - he said his client was seated in a chair with his hands tied behind his back during his initial arrest. Inventing a new name ("The shabah position") doesn't make it torture. Obviously the lawyer want…

https://www.972mag.com/shin-bet-dossier-palestinian-ngos/ Oh isn'there?

Please, stop lying.

The established facts, that the Shin Bet tortures people and israeli courts accept anything extracted under torture as testimony, do not in any way make your attempt at attacking sources of information nor your claim that this is false any more valid.

Your insistence makes me wonder what kind of incentives you have to be perceiving to go out of your way to defend a bald-faced lie like this.

Can we go back to having an earnest discussion instead of a boring, hasbara-typical farce?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#166
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever wondered why those people are protesting? If you only follow the history of the region you’d quickly realize that Israel did (and does) terrorize their neighbors who in turn retaliated and the vicious cycle of vendettas on eachother continues to this day. What is realy cool about Israel is that they’re a democratic country and a large part of their country denounces all this violence, there is a way forward towa…

1) Molotov != Protest 2) > follow the history of the region > terrorize their neighbors Counter example: 2005: Israel unilateral dismantling of the 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza 2007: Gaza Blockade I do not think we see the history of the region in the same way.

Not talking about Gaza, look closely at the whole map and how all palestinian territory is fractured, divided and isolated from one another. One can think its a security measure but it ceases to be one when they move in their own settlers in.

Second, molotov and rocks is protest, not a peaceful one but it still is. You have to understand these people have nothing else to lose, they’ve been beaten down with far more uneven military power.

I was listening to a podcast in which former Israeli soldiers were talking about how they were raiding palestinian houses at night and making arrests. They themselves thought it was wrong. How do you expect a generation that grows like that to behave, throw roses at the Israeli border?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#167
post #158
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia "the fappening" was a phishing attack. I don't think that is a mobile specific problem.

That is not correct. It was actually a distributed campaign with multiple hackers with different methods but the main leaks were due to the following problems: 1. Bug in some Apple services allowed unlimited login attempts 2. Bug in Apple backup restoration function allowed bypassing multi-factor authentication (or was it confirmation email?) This is all from memory, I might be wrong about the details. Anyway, that A…

According to the link below it clearly was phishing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_celebrity_nude_photo_leak...

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#168
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing the blood on the conquerer hands and the blood on the conquered hand is always a strong indicator of either misinformation or bad faith. It would be like saying 'Sure, the USA did a lot of terrible things in Afghanistan, but did you know that Taliban recruits child soldiers? There are blood on everybody's hand', well yes detective it's called a war, nobody is innocent in a war. The relevant issue is who let…

Wait, you're just outright saying that you are OK with the Taliban to committing human human rights abuses?

No, I'm saying that the US also committed human rights abuses, so it's not very useful to look at human rights abuses as a measure of who's more evil. You have two tools, both run on linux and windows, so portability is not a useful measure of which tool is better, remove it from both sides of the equation and look at what's left.

If you remove human rights abuses from the side of Taliban, you get a bunch of people defending their home lands. If you remove human rights abuses from the side of USA, you get an empire willing to violate the sovereignty of an entire nation because it's government didn't cooperate enough with them in chasing down one outlaw. Compare those two and decide who's more at fault in the war.

Applying the same procedure to the case of the Arab-Israeli conflict is left as an exercise for the reader.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those allegations came from the same place this “evidence” did.

Since when is testimony from their own Palestinian accountants not considered evidence?

> The dossier relies almost entirely on the interrogation of Said Abedat and Amru Hamudeh, who worked as accountants for the Union of Health Committees, a separate group which was outlawed in January 2020. Both were reportedly fired in 2019 for embezzling funds, and were later detained by the Shin Bet. Their lawyers could not be reached for comment.

Not their own accountants

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#170

To be fair, it is quite murky to what extent groups like Al-Haq are associated with the PFLP (which, with its history of aircraft hijackings and suicide bombings, is undoubtedly a terrorist group). There is plenty of purported evidence of financial and personnel links out there, and I really doubt HN is the right forum to decide either way (unless someone is an expert).

Wait until you learn what was said about Mandela.

Seriously. Do people forget the rhetoric around Mandela and the ANC during apartheid South Africa?

He was only taken off the terrorist watch list in '08.

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