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Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

brown.edu

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Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#161

Post by dunefox »

ildon wrote: post #148
tombert wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You definitely aren’t too old By "old" I didn't mean actual biological age exactly. I guess the more appropriate word would be something more like "settled". As it stands, I have a mortgage and whatnot to take care of, it's not really realistic for me to quit my job and focus full-time on a PhD for the next 5-6 years. > but I would never take on a PhD student that wants to continue working elsewhere That seems to b…

EU Professor here. You're right, expectations are very different in the "old continent". Things very quite significantly from country to country, but generally speaking in most EU you can do your PhD while working. Retrospectively, knowing what I know know, I should add that if I were to start a PhD now I wouldn't trust a university that asks for a full time commitment, no exceptions. I would be very suspicious that…

> I would be very suspicious that they will burden me with all kind of side activities (e.g. tutoring undergraduate students, handling bureaucracy, paper work, etc.) that are not really of any actual help towards the thesis.

So, every PhD position? I have looked at dozens and almost none don't require teaching, paper work, bureaucracy, organisational work, etc. done. I was even warned by one person that this weekend will be the first free weekend in months. Because of teaching, etc. I don't know how meaningful work can be done like this.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#162

Post by Zababa »

azhenley wrote: post #5
tombert wrote: post #3

This is really cool. I'm 30 right now, and only just recently finished my bachelors and have been looking to get a PhD, but it's really hard to find a program that will let you work full time while doing it. It doesn't help that a part of me does sort of feel "too old" to do this sometimes. The PhD system in the US is really tailored around the assumption that you haven't entered the corporate world yet. Anyway, it's…

Professor here. You definitely aren’t too old, but I would never take on a PhD student that wants to continue working elsewhere. A PhD is a full-time job. It took me 6.5 years and was hard enough with very little outside distractions.

> A PhD is a full-time job. It took me 6.5 years and was hard enough with very little outside distractions.

Interesting, in France in computer science, PhDs are often made while working part time on something related to the PhD.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#163

Post by Zababa »

evanb wrote: post #111
melvinmt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, part-time PhD's are pretty common in Europe. They also commonly take 3-4 years instead of 6...

… if you already have a master’s degree, which takes 2 years. In the US many 5-6 year PhD programs do not require—and in fact include—a master’s degree.

Oh, that explains a lot. In France it's usually 3 years (180 ECTS) for a license (which is usually equivalent to a bachelor), 2 years (120 ECTS) for a master's degree and then usually 3 years for a PhD. At least in software, most people have a master's degree.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#164

Post by Zababa »

thatguymike wrote: post #100
tombert wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I find weird; are European/British PhDs generally considered less valuable than American? I didn’t think they were but there’s a lot I don’t know about this.

One major difference between UK and US undegraduate courses is that when you study undergraduate at a UK university, you _only_ do courses in your chosen course of study. No faffing about for a year or two picking a major, no time spent filling language requirements or taking interesting-sounding courses to scratch an itch. As a result, UK graduating undergraduates tend to have spent more time in their chosen field o…

It's the same in France as in the UK. I'd say 90% of my time in college was spent on things directly related to maths, computer science or software engineering. Sports was mandatory for the first 2 years and half too.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#166

Post by ratww »

skissane wrote: post #97
tombert wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I find weird; are European/British PhDs generally considered less valuable than American? I didn’t think they were but there’s a lot I don’t know about this.

It is the same with undergraduate study. In countries such as the UK or Australia, the majority of Bachelor's degrees take only 3 years, versus a standard 4 year minimum for the US. I get the impression that a lot of US-based hiring managers don't know about this, but even if they do, nobody really seems to care much anyway. Unless it is your very first job after university, what you did as an undergraduate rarely ha…

Anecdotal, but I never saw a hiring manager complaining about degrees from elsewhere. Even in cases where documentation was asked (a FAANG... and Immigration too) a diploma equivalence is enough.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#167

Post by garmaine »

blip54321 wrote: post #160
ildon wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU Professor here. You're right, expectations are very different in the "old continent". Things very quite significantly from country to country, but generally speaking in most EU you can do your PhD while working. Retrospectively, knowing what I know know, I should add that if I were to start a PhD now I wouldn't trust a university that asks for a full time commitment, no exceptions. I would be very suspicious that…

New continent: - Full time commitment seems critical to the process. A Ph.D is a time of intellectual exploration, and you can't really do that fighting work and family deadlines. - On the other hand, time can be squished for older people by virtue of industry experience making them more efficient - I'd be hesitant about remote, since so much of a Ph.D is learning from others. Hallway conversations are critical. That…

> Full time commitment seems critical to the process. A Ph.D is a time of intellectual exploration, and you can't really do that fighting work and family deadlines.

This is BS. In every other field great strides have been made by individuals who balance a multitude of life requirements. Being able to devote every waking hour to something only results in burnout. And, I suppose, graduate students slave labor, which is the real reason for wanting 100% available graduate students in the program.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#168

Post by sabjut »

thatguymike wrote: post #100
tombert wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I find weird; are European/British PhDs generally considered less valuable than American? I didn’t think they were but there’s a lot I don’t know about this.

One major difference between UK and US undegraduate courses is that when you study undergraduate at a UK university, you _only_ do courses in your chosen course of study. No faffing about for a year or two picking a major, no time spent filling language requirements or taking interesting-sounding courses to scratch an itch. As a result, UK graduating undergraduates tend to have spent more time in their chosen field o…

Not exactly sure about the UK specifically, but elsewhere in Europe you can absolutely take any course that the university offers - it just wont be accredited and you will gain 0 ECTS Points, which you need to collect in a timely manner to complete your degree.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#169

Post by ghego1 »

dunefox wrote: post #161
ildon wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU Professor here. You're right, expectations are very different in the "old continent". Things very quite significantly from country to country, but generally speaking in most EU you can do your PhD while working. Retrospectively, knowing what I know know, I should add that if I were to start a PhD now I wouldn't trust a university that asks for a full time commitment, no exceptions. I would be very suspicious that…

> I would be very suspicious that they will burden me with all kind of side activities (e.g. tutoring undergraduate students, handling bureaucracy, paper work, etc.) that are not really of any actual help towards the thesis. So, every PhD position? I have looked at dozens and almost none don't require teaching, paper work, bureaucracy, organisational work, etc. done. I was even warned by one person that this weekend…

I'm sorry the hear that, and I think it's mostly worng.

I should add though that some activities are indeed useful, one of those is certainly teaching. If PhD students have full responsibility over the course, or part of the course, of which they're entrusted, it can be a very productive activity.

It is particularly formative if PhD students are entrusted with teaching activities covering subjects closely related to their thesis. In this way they can practice speaking over the things they are studying, which brings a ton of experience and positive growth.

On the contrary, if it's just teaching to cover hours that the professor to which the course is appointment is not willing to do, than it's much less attractive.

As a general rule, I'd suggest to a PhD student to be as selfish as possible. Although apparently counterintuitive, in their position it is a good rule of thumb to only engage in things that bring some tangible (but not necessarily immediate) utility. There are way too many professors willing to take advantage of younger positions for their own agenda. And that is also why it's very important who your thesis supervisor is.

Finally: never underestimate the "contractual power" that a PhD student has over a professor. Apart of few exceptions, professors need PhD students more than PhD students need professors. And in the case of those exceptions in which the professor is so well known and respected that there is a waiting list to be a PhD student, then I'd bet that it will also be so because such professor knows how to properly supervise PhD students.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#170

Post by OJFord »

thatguymike wrote: post #100
tombert wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I find weird; are European/British PhDs generally considered less valuable than American? I didn’t think they were but there’s a lot I don’t know about this.

One major difference between UK and US undegraduate courses is that when you study undergraduate at a UK university, you _only_ do courses in your chosen course of study. No faffing about for a year or two picking a major, no time spent filling language requirements or taking interesting-sounding courses to scratch an itch. As a result, UK graduating undergraduates tend to have spent more time in their chosen field o…

> I have no proof but it's reasonable to think that would transfer to shorter PHD programs.

I didn't enter one (regretfully) anywhere - but from what I recall when looking, US/Can typically have more of a taught element in preparation, included in the first year or two of the PhD programme.

Sort of like doing an MPhil or something followed by PhD I suppose, but built-in and I assume designed to counter the effect you describe.

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