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France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

reuters.com

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Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#161

Post by pkaye »

bsder wrote: post #96
threatofrain wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regards to big players and economies of scale, it's notable that on the other side of the exchange we have more people brought into the fold than ever, whether we're talking about books, movies, or apps. Otherwise there wouldn't be any leverage by which to squeeze out smaller entities. In modern times, this is an incidental cost of access. There's also some understandable doubts about the long term results of th…

> With regards to big players and economies of scale, it's notable that on the other side of the exchange we have more people brought into the fold than ever, whether we're talking about books Are more people actually brought into the fold? The rise of Amazon seems to correlate with fewer people also needing libraries and that libraries store fewer books. The problem is that the prerequisite for using Amazon and libr…

Though even libraries switched from card catalogues to computer databases long ago so some computer skill is even expected there.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#162

Post by makeitdouble »

cromwellian wrote: post #149

I don't even think Amazon wins on cost. It also wins on convenience and completeness. If I need to find a book or research on a subject, I'm not going to peruse a local book store, I'm going to use a Library Catalog, Amazon Search, or Google Search, from the convenience of my phone or desktop. Local book stores being the same price, or even cheaper, isn't likely to influence my initial tendency to preview on the Web…

For what it's worth, obscure books will come from small sellers that won't rely on Amazon's warehouses.

In these cases, Amazon acts as a real marketplace where a seller just gets a storefront to access their customers: shipping will often be done manually, the customer paying the real cost etc.

As an Amazon user, I really like that arrangement, where Amazon does what it is best at (cart handling), and small independent players get to reach a wide audience.

BTW this law has almost nothing to do with that, it will mainly affect best sellers from big publishers that set regulated prices (legal max discount is 5%, under conditions). Up until now online shop were flying under the radar as it seems, but regulator are catching up.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#163

Post by ineedasername »

makeitdouble wrote: post #131
ineedasername wrote: post #112

So, basically Amazon is in a win-win situation. If the status quo prevails, they're happy. If they have to start charging for shipping, maybe some customers go to a local bookstore but Amazon also has a legal mandate to make more profit in their book sales by not subsidizing shipping out of the wholesale margin. And while some people will buy local a bit more, Amazon sells so many things and the local store may still…

There are laws preventing price dropping on new books. If Amazon has to start charging for shipping, they will be charging the same as every other bookstore in total, making them just another option among the others. Some will still prefer Amazon, but there is no downside anymore to chose another online shop (and there’s plenty big and reputable ones).

making them just another option among the others

Not quite. Amazon will make more profit than it does by removing the shipping subsidy. Then, given their preexisting market position and logistics/delivery network, it's still likely to be faster to get a book from Amazon if a local store doesn't have a copy. If you don't have to have the book right now and are already a regular Amazon shopper, Amazon still has a significant advantage.

Amazon is never going to be just another purchase option. That requires them to only compete on price. They have plenty of other advantages, and a legal mandate to increase their profit margin on book sales might shift book buyer's shopping habits a tiny bit, but it's not stopping the trend, and I doubt it's slowing things much either.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#164

Post by throwaway789257 »

xattt wrote: post #78
throwaway789257 wrote: post #50

France has a long history of attempting to protect its cultural industries, including film and publishing. It's not wrong. There are other things that are important aside from customer purchasing power. Amazon is using its economies of scale to drive out smaller businesses. It is not unique in that. But the industries that Amazon affects may be unique to the nations that wish to preserve them. Most centralization inc…

> railroads Would you be able to elaborate on this or was it hyperbole? Personal experience is where there is passenger rail service are inherently more interesting.

I would recommend reading Daniel Boorstin's book, The Americans: The Democratic Experience.

https://www.amazon.com/Americans-Democratic-Experience-Danie...

There are fascinating chapters about how the combination of railroads, mail-order catalogs, rural-free delivery of USPS, and chain stores like A&P successively wiped out local merchants in small town America in favor of distant economic centers.

The debates they had about those technologies and economic models are almost identical to the debates that have raged about Wal-Mart and later Amazon in my lifetime.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#165

Post by ineedasername »

makeitdouble wrote: post #158
kaashif wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After complete price equality, I don't think it will be possible to have mandatory equal delivery times, so surely Amazon will still win out based on faster delivery.

They still mostly rely on the local infrastructure. Even going through gig economy based approaches won't set them apart from the other players doing the same. Amazon is dominant, but not as much as we would tend to believe. It was forced to stop operations in France for a few weeks at the beginning of the pandemic, and demand just shifted around, service wasn't worse, delivery times weren't very different considerin…

Does Amazon really not have it's logistics built out that much in France? In the US local infrastructure is basically just last-mile delivery except for more rural areas.

Also IIRC, Amazon shutdown at the begining of covid because of labor relations and a court order prohibiting shipment of anything but medical supplies-- not directly connected to it's general logistics and shipment capabilities.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#166

Post by pier25 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #148
amluto wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m suspicious that Amazon sells fewer books than a good physical bookstore. In a bookstore, people find books they didn’t know they want, and I’ve never found anything interesting on Amazon. Similarly, Amazon does not produce the “whole I’m already here, I might as well buy something else” effect. I’ve long thought that the publishers have has their whole business model wrong in quite a few ways.

> I’ve never found anything interesting on Amazon Probably a lack of your own imagination. There’s a lifetime of interesting books on Amazon.

Same for me. I've found plenty of interesting stuff on Amazon.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#168

Post by pier25 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #129
pier25 wrote: post #62

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is actually protecting the small book stores, right? Big stores like the Fnac could offer the same shipping prices as Amazon (and maybe they're already doing it). Publishers don't care much who is selling the book as long as it's selling. Obviously this only applies to physical books. Ebooks only account for about 15% of books sold in France unlike the US where it's close to 5…

This is shielding everyone else really. Amazon is using its money to basically price dump books, forcing competitors to the same path if they want to stand a chance. Having the other players also get into dumping is not a desirable outcome.

"Everyone else" meaning who exactly?

Who is Amazon harming in the books industry other than small retailers?

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#169

Post by pier25 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #144

A lot of comments don’t seem to get the context of this. Book prices are regulated in France [0] and you can’t just discount willy-nilly, in particular new book publications have selling prices set by the publisher. This proposition is coming on top of that: it will block sellers from artificially discounting books by subsidizing shipping cost. It is basically closing a loophole that still allowed Amazon to have lowe…

> The effect will be to force the same sticker price everywhere, as intended for years now.

So in the end the seller with the best service will win.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#170

Post by themitigating »

pier25 wrote: post #169
makeitdouble wrote: post #144

A lot of comments don’t seem to get the context of this. Book prices are regulated in France [0] and you can’t just discount willy-nilly, in particular new book publications have selling prices set by the publisher. This proposition is coming on top of that: it will block sellers from artificially discounting books by subsidizing shipping cost. It is basically closing a loophole that still allowed Amazon to have lowe…

> The effect will be to force the same sticker price everywhere, as intended for years now. So in the end the seller with the best service will win.

Or with more stores, longer hours, free shipping....
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