Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube • Hacker News Board

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#161

Post by mynameisvlad » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #140

enobrev wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right, this website works fine unless you deliberately disable it.

Websites, especially blogs, should work fine without javascript. There's no reason whatsoever to require javascript for a user to read a few paragraphs.

It's not your website, so who are you to say what is "fine" and what isn't?

It's up to the website owner to determine what the minimum requirements for their site are, and they chose to require Javascript. Judging by the fact that Axios is still up and running, they don't seem to mind their decision.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#162

Post by hristov » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #12

From the original blog of Roku "First, Google continues to interfere with Roku’s independent search results, requiring that we preference YouTube over other content providers" "Second, Google discriminates against Roku by demanding search, voice, and data features that they do not insist on from other streaming platforms." I would be much more comfortable if the headline says, "Google made unreasonable demands on Rok…

Googles demand is very reasonable and it is exactly what I (and most other customers, I am sure) expect of the behavior of the software. When I am within an app and do a search I expect the search to be either limited to that app (preferable) or if not, the results of the search that are within the app should be somehow highlighted.

If I pay $40/month for Youtube TV, and go into the Youtube TV app, and search for a show, I am searching for a show within the offerings of the app I am in. I do not want to be offered a show in a yet another app for which I will have to pay yet another monthly fee.

And I especially do not want to be driven towards another service for which I will have to pay another monthly fee, if the show I am searching for is already available in the app I am already paying for and from which I am searching.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#163

Post by supernovae » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #100

Funny seeing all the Roku love here. What I've observed when comparing Roku to other devices. I buy my apple TV -> I get basically no ads, they don't seem to charge that much to allow folks like youtube tv to have an app on the platform Roku -> I buy and own my device. They seem to sell advertising all over the device I paid for. They seem to be charging companies for buttons and/or to be able to put an app on the ro…

The entire apple ecosystem is extremely expensive to be on - asking 30% of revenue share - not much for major networks since they don't have to invent it themselves, but a hefty tax to consumers in comparison to non apple devices.

The funny part is, they charge a premium on both ends and people like it. (and i do believe Apple had to fight similar battles on youtube placement...)

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#164

Post by supernovae » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

yoyohello13 wrote: post #155

brk wrote: post #39

The competitive landscape for what is turning out to be the next evolution of in-home video content delivery is just making me realize that the content is not worth the hassle. I'm not going to replace a $100/mo CATV subscription with 10 (or even 5) $10/mo individual subscriptions, where I have to constantly remember which service provides a particular show. I'm not going to have multiple dongles and devices to watch…

Sounds like there is room for a service that aggregates all your streaming services into a single portal. They could even include services you don't want into a 'bundle' for 'free'. Then they could work with ISPs to bundle their content aggregation service with internet for one convenient price. Then they could make an appliance called a 'cable' box so home users can stream all these 'channels' to any device they wan…

Xbox tried this... the Xbox search that spanned all the app enabled services was freaking awesome.

BUT.. the networks killed it and the feature never lived much into the X1 and doesn't exist anywhere at all anymore.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#165

Post by opo » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #133

datavirtue wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK. So they are supposed to make money selling one of the most unprofitable commodities on earth...electronic hardware? The only company pulling that off is Apple...and probably just on the iPhone. I paid $400 for a huge TCL TV. It probably cost $100 just to move it around the globe. There is no money for development or the platform/service in that price.

There's no way that a container full of TVs costs $100 per TV to ship. A bit of quick ddg-ing and it looks like a 40 foot container should be less than $4000 port to port.

With the supply chain problems, prices have gone up - sometimes quite a bit. I saw this article:

>...Container shipping rates from China to the United States have scaled fresh highs above $20,000 per 40-foot box as rising retailer orders ahead of the peak U.S. shopping season add strain to global supply chains.

https://www.reuters.com/business/china-us-container-shipping...

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#166

Post by saisundar » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

dtjb wrote: post #18

I get this situation is different since YouTube is looking for concessions on functionality, but I find it hard to defend Roku with their triple-dipping scheme. They charge for the device (I paid over $100 for my 4k HDR box), then they display massive ads covering 50% of the screen, then they want a cut of revenue from content providers as well. Roku burned through a lot of goodwill with their customers during the HB…

4 way dipping.

Roku also takes a cut for every transaction that goes via its platform. If I end up subscribing to HBO via roku, Roku takes a cut too.

On a related note, is it just me that's flummoxed by the lack of Ad disclosures for the Roku ads? I can't seem to find it - and having worked ij tech ads , I find this troubling and concerning.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#167

Post by horsawlarway » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

hristov wrote: post #162

kumarvvr wrote: post #12

From the original blog of Roku "First, Google continues to interfere with Roku’s independent search results, requiring that we preference YouTube over other content providers" "Second, Google discriminates against Roku by demanding search, voice, and data features that they do not insist on from other streaming platforms." I would be much more comfortable if the headline says, "Google made unreasonable demands on Rok…

Googles demand is very reasonable and it is exactly what I (and most other customers, I am sure) expect of the behavior of the software. When I am within an app and do a search I expect the search to be either limited to that app (preferable) or if not, the results of the search that are within the app should be somehow highlighted. If I pay $40/month for Youtube TV, and go into the Youtube TV app, and search for a s…

And if the opposite is true?

If the content is paid on youtube, but available for free through another subscription service that Roku knows you have?

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#168

Post by tedajax » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

hristov wrote: post #162

kumarvvr wrote: post #12

From the original blog of Roku "First, Google continues to interfere with Roku’s independent search results, requiring that we preference YouTube over other content providers" "Second, Google discriminates against Roku by demanding search, voice, and data features that they do not insist on from other streaming platforms." I would be much more comfortable if the headline says, "Google made unreasonable demands on Rok…

Googles demand is very reasonable and it is exactly what I (and most other customers, I am sure) expect of the behavior of the software. When I am within an app and do a search I expect the search to be either limited to that app (preferable) or if not, the results of the search that are within the app should be somehow highlighted. If I pay $40/month for Youtube TV, and go into the Youtube TV app, and search for a s…

I'm pretty sure this refers to Roku's top level search which searches across all apps not the search inside the YouTube app.

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#169

Post by ARandumGuy » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

brk wrote: post #39

The competitive landscape for what is turning out to be the next evolution of in-home video content delivery is just making me realize that the content is not worth the hassle. I'm not going to replace a $100/mo CATV subscription with 10 (or even 5) $10/mo individual subscriptions, where I have to constantly remember which service provides a particular show. I'm not going to have multiple dongles and devices to watch…

> I'm not going to replace a $100/mo CATV subscription

> I am not going to pay for a service and still be subjected to advertisements.

I have some bad news for you regarding advertisements on cable...

Re: Roku tells customers it is unable to strike a deal with YouTube

#170

Post by saisundar » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

Becoming the next smart TV platform is the real war here.

By becoming the go-to platform for smart tv apps, the winner gets the following advantages - rich access to search and voice data (which, by the Amazon playbook, is super valuable for originals) - hardware profits - ads related profits. My definition of ads are any apps/placements that are not organic. This includes actual ads for shows etc, but also placements in search results dedicated sections etc. - per transaction profits. This is the apple playbook. Take a 30% cut of every transaction. - Subscription profits from original apps - say roku originals or Apple tv+.

There is a lot going on here, and what we are seeing here as a deadlock is a stalemate due to clashes between Google and roku on many of the above issues.