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Tech compensation in 2021

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Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#161
post #94

In other news, if you aren't in the valley or working for one of the big tech companies, you're probably making 100-150K as a mid/senior developer. There's a pretty sizable leap.

Probably but not necessarily. Don't aspire to be most software engineers if you don't want to get paid like most software engineers haha. I'll add a data point. I live in a 90 COL index city(I don't live in a 90 area though) and will clear >300k this year total cash comp at a non-FAANG company working remote. Earlier this year I had a 200k base salary offer for a staff full stack eng role at a startup(that just raise…

How much experience do you have and what sort of work do you do?

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#162

> Chris can expect to make $300k at a non-FAANG company, but nearly double that if they’re willing to compromise on that “no-FAANG” stance Ok but aren't the expectations for a Staff+ way higher at FAANG than at non-FAANG? Or we assume Chris already got the offer from FAANG for a Staff+ role and so it's just a personal choice? Those articles and discussions about salary always assume everybody is able to work at FAANG…

That’s the whole problem with this kind of analysis. You can’t just ignore that there is market segmentation (I hate the term “tiers” but that’s really what it is).

That’s true, good piece on it here: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala...

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#163
post #61
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about founders, but if you're looking to hire top talent you need to pay them, give them the promise of meaningful equity. Software engineering is one of those professions where you don't work a 9 - 5 job. I'm constantly thinking about problems at work, while i do mundane tasks like cleaning my apartment, or doing the dishes.

Yes but unfortunately most startups can't afford to compete with monopolies. As the OP mentions I'd recommend anyone considering startups to value equity at $0 unless it's a late stage company with a lot of traction and top VCs backing them.

Would you define late stage as Series B? Where do you draw that line?

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#164
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook announced they would allow all employees to work remotely a few months ago. Pay is location-adjusted.

That's exactly my point: a dev working for Facebook in Hungary will probably make decent money but it will still be a fraction of what he could be making in the US..

I was mostly responding to:

> the recent 'they need to return to the office'

Which is counterfactual, unless I totally misunderstood the statement.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#165

How long will these last? I'm just in the beginning of my career and am deathly afraid of a dotcom type situation where my earning potential is harmed over the rest of my career.

dotcom was a completely different situation. VC money flowed to companies that had no meaningful revenue. FAANG, on the other hand, are printing billions of dollars per month.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#166
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say more in line necessarily, unless you work at the big banks in a profit center. Contractors can make anywhere from £300 to about £750 a day unless they land on an extremely profitable niche, which is great money for the UK but not the kind of insane rates SV engineers can get. Of course, cost of living is lower too, especially up north where I am.

What would be an example of extremely profitable niches? Just curious as I live in London and wanna up my salary.

typically niches are found or created, rather than listed on job searches. If you're already a contract software engineer, the most accessible 'niche' would be contract/interim CTO positions. Beyond that, specific expertise or contacts in specific industries would be the way forwards; at this point it's not a matter of applying for jobs, but creating opportunities.

[edit] forgot to mention contract (cloud) architects and project managers. They can make a lot, too.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#167
post #101
post #16

There's a huge difference between early stage and mid-late stage private companies. For the latter, you are almost always getting RSUs rather than options, so you don't have to pay taxes out of pocket to exercise them. It's also wrong to automatically consider all stock grants to be worth $0 just because you can't immediately sell them. If Stripe or Databricks offers you a million dollars worth of shares today it'll…

Yes! This advice to value shares of private companies at zero is buried deep in the article, but I think it renders the article quite misleading. The right thing to do is to use your own judgment to estimate the value of the stock. A small stake in a promising early-stage company really is worth something. There just isn't a clean formula for how much it's worth. When you really think hard about it, this will push yo…

Important tip for people considering startups: only join ones that recently raised an A or B round from one of the top VC firms. VCs get to see all of the numbers and won't invest unless there's some sign of upside.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be cases I'm missing, but afaik you never *have* to suffer ruinous tax liabilities from stock comp if you're willing to just eat the gains as raw income (making the (often smart) gamble to hit LCTG is what will get you in trouble).

It is very difficult to run into ruinous tax problems with publicly traded companies, but it's possible. There's a delay between the vest date and when you can actually sell your shares. Normally this is just a few days, but if something dire happens your stock can still tank in this window. If $100k of RSUs vest and then drop to $0 in value before you can sell, you have $100k of income to pay taxes on, and can only…

Yikes this sounds like a terrible deal for an employee. How long as these expiry dates? So if I get options in a company at a high valuation and pay taxes on the fair market value at that time and the valuation dips by the time I am able to exercise them, I have effectively lost money? Sorry, just trying to figure this out.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#169
post #142

20 years experience, two books under my belt, and lead architect (with a CTO title) on several good sized projects and most I have ever gotten in $175k... every time I see an article like this, I think I am doing something "very wrong" I live about 40 miles outside of Boston. Edit: Looking at levels.fyi for Boston that actually puts me above the median[1]. Why the heck is Boston so low compared to other markets? Edit…

The levels.fyi number you're looking at is across companies, so it's skewed by the type of companies hiring SWE's in Boston vs the Bay Area, which have different pay scales. Large Bay Area tech companies (e.g. FAANG) pay Boston SWE's pretty close[0] to what they pay SF SWE's. If you use the "Robert Half" site[1] from the original article, it says Boston is +34% compared to US baseline (vs SF's +42%, NYC's +40.5%) whi…

Just at first look it seems the 50th percentile is roughly the same (slightly higher) on the Robert Half numbers.

But either way, not everyone can work for FAANG, so I think looking at the overall picture is fair.

I'm pretty confident even with 20 years of experience and I can't even get a FAANG interview (let alone pass it), I'm just not their type.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#170
These compensation amounts reflect what I am seeing in the market. Whenever I see these amounts, like many others, I am somewhat amazed, but then I stop, look at my own history and reflect on the environment that supports paying a Staff engineer $300k a year.

Here is my story, which may or may not shed some light on working in high tech in Silicon Valley. I was part of a couple of successful startups in Portland, OR and was convinced by a venture capitalist to join a software company as VP of Engineering in 1997. I was paid $225,000, given a bonus schedule and a percentage of the proceeds of the sale should one occur. For a while I flew from Portland to SFO and took a cab to Foster City every week. I eventually moved, trading my unique, top floor apartment with a view of a park for a generic stucco box apartment in Burlingame that cost three times as much. The work was brutal and involved lots of lay-offs, restructuring, working with vendors to avoid defaults and the usual joy of dealing with a company in crisis. It was soul crushing, but the company finally sold and I took my bonus and started another software company in Burlingame.

I did various startups, some good, some bad and ended up at Apple at what was called Engineer/Scientist (some number here). I can't remember what the number meant. I was making $145,000 and received 27,000 options priced at $9.00 a share. I bought a really boring townhouse off of Lawrence Expressway for $300,000 that cost $57,000 in 1967. It is jammed into an already dense neighborhood totally devoid of any personality. The very same townhouse just sold for 1.1 million because you can walk to Apple Parc from it.

Living in Silicon Valley, especially as a young engineer making $185,000 means living either in San Francisco and commuting, or living in one the fairly identical communities all along 101 in a fairly identical apartment building or renting a house. Maybe you can find a situation that is more unique, or boost your commute time and live in the periphery. The commute is no fun, because you and everybody else is arriving at your various mega-campus' around 9:00 and leaving around 18:00.

I often felt like I was going insane. I felt like people were piled on top of me. I would go on two-hour bike rides at lunch everyday into the hills to escape. I was making good money but the "nice" houses in Palo Alto or Woodside were extremely expensive. The cost of living was quite high, so even though one might make a lot, you can expend a lot. When I went out to dinner, everyone around me was talking about their startup, IPO, options, explaining how they were going to tell their early investors to "go pound sand", etc.

This is my experience and of course your mileage may vary. You may love the "hustle" the energy and all that entails. I don't know how people manage to raise kids or have a peaceful life there. I am sure it can be done. When I personally think of having to go back to living in Mountain View/Sunnyvale/Santa Clara and commute to the GooglePlex/Apple Parc/Facebook Hacker Way I am overcome by a deep sense of anxiety, dread and nausea.

Once again, this is my experience and I understand and value people who love this environment. Please don't be blinded by these high dollar compensation plans. I promise you there is more to life than making this amount to work in Silicon Valley. Please factor in all of the environmental values when you decide to move to Gilroy with your family to work at Facebook. There is definitely a cost.

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