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Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

economist.com

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Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#161

Post by _fat_santa »

I wonder where this will go with the rise of Stablecoins like USDC, USDT and DAI. The traditional argument to this is just "use crypto" but the traditional counterargument is "what if BTC falls off a cliff tomorrow" or similar comments about the volatility of crypto.

But now with stablecoins, I wonder how long before all places deemed too unsavory to will just start accepting Tether or another stablecoin. You can already see the govt scrambling to patch their own weakness in this area with their own coin (forgot what it's called). The govt knows they are in the weaker position here because they have virtually zero regulatory authority over stablecoins.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#162

Post by toyg »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #160
toyg wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DMCA, with all its faults, outlines a challenge process performed largely outside the courts. Something similar could be done for banks: bank shuts down account for company, company appeals providing some proof, bank files proof somewhere and reinstates. If the bank is then sued by government or third party, it is "safe-havened" by such proof. If proof is found to be false, the company is responsible, not the ban…

> Something similar could be done for banks: bank shuts down account for company, company appeals providing some proof, bank files proof somewhere and reinstates You're describing your state banking regulator. Also, like a bajillion federal banking regulators.

Well then, something clearly is not working in that process, if we're here.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#163

Post by mmastrac »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #158
yunesj wrote: post #148

HN readers are wrong to think this will be fixed when the government creates a CBDC or regulates payment providers like a utility. In addition to the government currently blocking transactions from semi-legal industries that should be legal (cannabis), the government has a history of censoring mail mentioning contraceptives (Comstock Laws) and pressuring banks to cut businesses with legal, undesirable industries (Ope…

> the government currently blocking transactions from semi-legal industries that should be legal (cannabis) What does this refer to?

I think that a cursory search for banking and cannabis will reveal the pressure the US government puts on this industry. Banking for cannabis is much easier in canada. You can purchase weed with a Visa no problem.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#164

Post by jeromegv »

shartacct wrote: post #154
cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

> Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Every dispensary I've visited here in the northeast accepts cash and debit cards, I assume they don't accept credit due to higher processing fees and higher risk of chargebacks rather than processors being problematic (otherwise they would not accept debit since they get ran through the same system anyway).

Your assumption is wrong, they are being refused by Square, Stripe, etc, etc. CBD are also in a grey zone which cause them tons of problems accepting credit cards. This isn't because of higher processing fees.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#165

Post by JumpCrisscross »

toyg wrote: post #162
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something similar could be done for banks: bank shuts down account for company, company appeals providing some proof, bank files proof somewhere and reinstates You're describing your state banking regulator. Also, like a bajillion federal banking regulators.

Well then, something clearly is not working in that process, if we're here.

> something clearly is not working in that process, if we're here

The article talks about credit card networks. I'm referring to banks. Banks are highly regulated, including with respect to account closures. Credit card networks are much less regulated.

If you want a non-court public venue to dispute your bank on something, anything, you have several such venues. Depending on your state, they can be quite toothsome.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#166

Post by FireBeyond »

oleganza wrote: post #43

Since HN generally does not like mentions of Bitcoin, here are some stats. Bitcoin was launched 12 years ago, reached $1'000'000'000'000 monetization this year (>1.5x larger than IMF), exploded interest and funding for cryptography and p2p networking over the past 6-8 years, and is marching towards reaching monetization of gold ($11T). Lightning network runs over 3 years already and growing its capacity exponentially…

> Bitcoin was launched 12 years ago, reached $1'000'000'000'000 monetization this year (>1.5x larger than IMF), exploded interest and funding for cryptography and p2p networking over the past 6-8 years, and is marching towards reaching monetization of gold ($11T).

12 years to get to 8% is not really "marching towards".

And then your flippant "everyone uses energy to do things" dismissal doesn't help. Yes, they do. But people don't buy power plants just to run payment processors. But they do buy them to mine Bitcoin.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#167

Post by rootusrootus »

shartacct wrote: post #154
cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

> Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Every dispensary I've visited here in the northeast accepts cash and debit cards, I assume they don't accept credit due to higher processing fees and higher risk of chargebacks rather than processors being problematic (otherwise they would not accept debit since they get ran through the same system anyway).

Or they are working the system and making an ATM withdrawal look like a debit from the consumer's point of view.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#168

Post by kevingadd »

cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

Human trafficking isn't happening on Patreon or OnlyFans, though.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#169

Post by elzbardico »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #146
elzbardico wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Brazilian government created an instant payment system that doesn't depend on payment processors. You can send money to anyone in seconds using their tax id number or their phone numbers, it clears in seconds. It is named PIX. All banks implemented it, so, no matter what is your bank you're able to do payments from your smartphone using your banks app. It is so popular and easy to use that even street merchants a…

How do they deal with fraud/theft?

Well, the same you do with Credit Cards or other forms of electronic transfer of debts.

In most banks you must first authenticate your smartphone app by going to an ATM where you use your card and some sort of biometrics to authenticate along with your pin. The app can only be used after this first "machine" authentication.

There are also customer-customizable limits, the usual anti-fraud controls. Of course, there is a lot of scams involving people with less instruction, but it is not substantially different from the levels in other types of transfer/payment.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#170

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mmastrac wrote: post #163
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the government currently blocking transactions from semi-legal industries that should be legal (cannabis) What does this refer to?

I think that a cursory search for banking and cannabis will reveal the pressure the US government puts on this industry. Banking for cannabis is much easier in canada. You can purchase weed with a Visa no problem.

> the pressure the US government puts on this industry

Sure. But OP mentioned the U.S. government "currently blocking transactions" from cannabis businesses.

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