Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#161

Post by pvarangot » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:40 AM UTC

bruceb wrote: post #150

Apocryphon wrote: post #56

The official reason is because of housing: "To be clear we will be continuing to expand our activities in California," Musk said. "Our intention is to increase output from Fremont and Giga Nevada by 50%. If you go to our Fremont factory it's jammed." But, he added, "It's tough for people to afford houses, and people have to come in from far away....There's a limit to how big you can scale in the Bay Area." https://ww…

Article on the commute some Tesla workers make, getting up at 2:30am. https://www.protocol.com/silicon-valley-tech-shuttles

When I was working on a hardware project at Lyft I interviewed at least two Tesla engineers who said their sole reason for wanting to change jobs was that occasional commute.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#162

Post by notJim » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:41 AM UTC

danhak wrote: post #34

California's tax regime is really backward. I suspect Tesla's departure is just the tip of the iceberg and that the repeal of the SALT deduction in 2017 really hastened this trend. High earners pay an effective tax rate of > 50%. They are partially picking up the slack from Prop 13, which artificially distorts the housing market by allowing longtime homeowners to pay property taxes based on decades-old assessed value…

> High earners pay an effective tax rate of > 50%

How so? I put a salary of $300k in SF here, and came up with 38%: https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator#c0piT.... Obviously Fremont workers do not need to live in SF.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#163

Post by thephyber » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:41 AM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #84

gautamcgoel wrote: post #48

What I'm really curious about is what happens to Austin (and to a lesser extent, Atlanta, Raleigh, Denver, SLC etc). Does Austin become the next Bay Area/next Seattle? Crazy high housing prices, and high homelessness/crime? If so, how long does that take, and what happens to native Austinites? If not, what prevents history from repeating itself?

This being Texas, I suppose Austin has fewer restrictions on new development, so housing prices may be less crazy. To say nothing of taxes, which leave more of your wages to pay the rent.

Your intuition is shared by many, but it is a little off.

Lots of low/middle income Californians actually have a higher total tax burden in Texas.[1] And I’d guess that Austin is one of the places where cost of living is highest for Texas, reducing the net quality of life profit.

Also, residential expansion in those two places is a bit of apples and oranges. Bay Area is surrounded by water, mountains, and Open Space Preserve. Austin is surrounded by land, land, and more land; and most of it is flat.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-05-19/wait-c...

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#164

Post by somethoughts » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:41 AM UTC

danhak wrote: post #34

California's tax regime is really backward. I suspect Tesla's departure is just the tip of the iceberg and that the repeal of the SALT deduction in 2017 really hastened this trend. High earners pay an effective tax rate of > 50%. They are partially picking up the slack from Prop 13, which artificially distorts the housing market by allowing longtime homeowners to pay property taxes based on decades-old assessed value…

Resource driven economies like Texas can maintain a low income tax by deriving most of their tax revenue from property taxes and taxing oil and gas revenues.

IMHO the high income tax regime found in California is actually a function of high density, high income, knowledge based earners moving in.

If enough of them arrive, demands for services (schools, fire, police) and infrastructure (i.e. light rail, etc.) will increase. The original NIMBY locals will initially love the increasing property values and new restaurants... until their property tax bills start rising to astronomical sums.

The state will then need to push for Prop 13 like property tax capping legislation at which point the state legislature will need to raise funds somehow and magically they will end up with a 10%-20% state income tax on super high income earners like Elon, et. al.

That said - just a IMHO prediction and just saying that you can't blame it entirely on just California(ns) being dysfunctional. :)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbXLnmLEevQ

Property tax values in Austin just saw the highest increase in Austin History

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#165

Post by option » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:41 AM UTC

CheezeIt wrote: post #37

danhak wrote: post #34

California's tax regime is really backward. I suspect Tesla's departure is just the tip of the iceberg and that the repeal of the SALT deduction in 2017 really hastened this trend. High earners pay an effective tax rate of > 50%. They are partially picking up the slack from Prop 13, which artificially distorts the housing market by allowing longtime homeowners to pay property taxes based on decades-old assessed value…

The public schools aren’t pitiful at all. California has great schools.

Bay area public schools are horrible. I live 15 mins away from Apple HQ and all you need to know about our assigned elementary school is that it has metal detectors on the entrance because of the gang activity.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#166

Post by didibus » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:42 AM UTC

I know some people like to make this political, and I know that the real reason is probably a simple mix of cheaper land, lower taxes and thus hoping to raise profits, but I personally think this is a great thing.

California is saturated, it's nice to distribute things amongst the states more evenly. There's already so many people and high value tech companies in California.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#167

Post by fastball » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:42 AM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #31

temp8964 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Tesla a progressive company? And what does that mean?

I thought I indicated that in literally next sentence; Musk is building companies to change future and disrupt status quo in general (so opposite from the most generic definition of conservativism which seeks to preserve it) ; and specifically Tesla is a company that builds a product that in small way obviates what Texas exports and lives on

> company that builds a product that in small way obviates what Texas exports and lives on

Texas produces more GWh of Solar + Wind energy than any other state in the US.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#168

Post by m0zg » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:42 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #151

m0zg wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've looked at properties in Austin area a few months back. It's more affordable than CA, but it's still way out of reach of most non-HQ staff that Tesla employs. I've read the stat that property values have gone up 43% due to exodus from locked down blue states over the course of just the past year. Couple this with Texas' higher than average property tax rate (_especially_ in Austin area) and you've got some pretty…

> FWIW, I'm looking at FL now instead. Miami? Or joining the much more quiet Jacksonville or Tampa Bay exodus that this dubious survey based entirely on LinkedIn data claims: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-01/austin-is...

Don't know yet. One thing I realized is I can't really decide whether a place is worth moving to without living there for a few months. So that's what I intend to do before I uproot my family and move. I like TX in general, but a week or two does not give an even remotely complete picture, beyond just the basic "affordability" and quality of available housing stock.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#169

Post by belltaco » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:42 AM UTC

joewadcan wrote: post #53

barney54 wrote: post #29

Now that Elon has extracted a bunch of subsidies from California, he is moving on.

Which ones specifically? The only two I know of are: - The low/zero emission car rebate that Toyota and every other manufacturer has used. - The clean energy manufacturing tax write off that applies to over a hundred other companies. I don't think California has given Elon any significant subsidies. When Tesla asked states to compete on the Gigafactory, California lost to Nevada.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1089205_tesla-to-add-pr...

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#170

Post by asdff » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:42 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #146

cjensen wrote: post #76

When CEOs move, they often move their headquarters closer to where they live. Somehow Tesla managed to survive all the problems of California until shortly after Musk moved to Texas. Folks talking about the advantages and disadvantages of California vs Texas may be overthinking this.

I mean, you could just as easily argue that the problems of California are what caused his move to Texas, as simply testing the waters for the move of the HQ.

The main problem for musk in this case being his tax burden, since he is otherwise entirely insulated from every other issue affecting most californians.