Revolt of the Delivery Workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#161

Post by twic » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

aerosmile wrote: post #159

tazjin wrote: post #51

It's always strange to read these reports from American cities that sound like something out of war-torn countries. Delivery workers grouping together to defend themselves against hordes of bandits, in well-known places, with no police protection? What the ...? This sort of thing would be unthinkable in central Moscow and most other large European city centres (the only European city I've ever felt unsafe in is Bruss…

Spoiler alert: the murder rate in Russia is 40% higher than in the US, and that's despite the very different gun laws [1][2]. Nothing ruins a good story like facts. That's also why you should always raise before you launch or enter a new market, etc. People are suckers for a story, and our brains are pre-wired to explain phenomena rather than to question them. Once you master that psychology (and manipulation) of peo…

Could you expand on what this has to do with tazjin's point, which is specifically about delivery workers being attacked by robbers, and the police doing nothing about it, in specific cities?

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#162

Post by bovine3dom » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

mjburgess wrote: post #155

stagger87 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burglary and violence are not specific to American cities. Implying that they are "unthinkable" in large European cities is borderline flame bait.

I don't really think so. Americans often project this "no-go areas" type thinking onto europe. I'm not aware of any "no-go" areas anywhere in the country. I think a ban on guns, and eg., an extreme historical scarcity of them in the UK means we aren't in the same position at all. Yes there may be gangs. Yes there may be murders. But I think people delivering food on bikes arent in danger basically anywhere.

In Manchester in the UK there was one in 2019: an old railway line which has been converted into a bike path, the Fallowfield loop. Groups of teenagers were attacking cyclists with hammers and logs. I believe that the police woke up to it and it has calmed now but it was definitely a no-go area for me for a few months. I'm pretty sure someone tried to drop a fist-sized rock on me while I cycled under a bridge...

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#163

Post by modo_mario » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

jameshart wrote: post #81

jakelazaroff wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police exist to protect capital, not labor. The system is working as intended.

A three thousand dollar electric bike that enables someone to carry out a valuable service is the very definition of ‘capital’.

Not him but i'm pretty sure that's not what he or anyone making that reference means in this scenario.

Owning a bike or a car doesn't net one the relevant power of what one refers to when one says capital in this scenario. For example the NYPD mentioned gets millions in donations and i can assure you those don't come from gig workers who feel like they need more protection from them.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#164

Post by brundolf » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

tazjin wrote: post #139

pydry wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it that hard to believe given the events from the last couple of years that the police arent all that interested in protecting these people? American police also stole $2.5 bn in cash and killed 1,100 people in 2020.

My point is that there must be people who aren't involved in criminal gangs or deliveries crossing this bridge, too, so there should be a general interest in keeping it safe.

It seemed like these were targeted attacks- specific time window, specific target group. Most people crossing won't have something worth thousands of dollars on them, which can conveniently act as its own getaway vehicle, and which can then be fenced through what sounded like an established pipeline for this particular item

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#165

Post by stagger87 » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

mjburgess wrote: post #155

stagger87 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burglary and violence are not specific to American cities. Implying that they are "unthinkable" in large European cities is borderline flame bait.

I don't really think so. Americans often project this "no-go areas" type thinking onto europe. I'm not aware of any "no-go" areas anywhere in the country. I think a ban on guns, and eg., an extreme historical scarcity of them in the UK means we aren't in the same position at all. Yes there may be gangs. Yes there may be murders. But I think people delivering food on bikes arent in danger basically anywhere.

Bike robbery and theft is an issue in Europe, especially e-bikes.

> Americans often project this "no-go areas" type thinking onto europe. I'm not aware of any "no-go" areas anywhere in the country.

This just comes off as more flame bait. What kind of discussion do you expect to have with this sort of comment?

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#166

Post by jamil7 » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #79

Thlom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food delivery cyclists in Norway went on strike and were able to secure status as employees and tariff agreements a couple of years ago.

Sad to see they succeeded in obtaining a legal right to restrict other people's right to freely contract, and an indoctrinated public passively accepts it.

The Foodora workers who unionised and won a better contract in Norway were never self-employed, they were always on part-time contracts. What they achieved was for their equipment (bikes, smartphone and clothing) to be compensated by their employer and a higher hourly wage. Would love to see some of your reasoning for how exactly this outcome restricted other workers rights?

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#167

Post by sudosysgen » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #125

humanistbot wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like you're trying to make a clever joke in the style of mocking SV types for reinventing products that have existed for generations, except you're wrong. The parent means the Amazon delivery locker kiosks they're putting in all kinds of retail stores, where you enter a code to unlock the locker with your package. It is secure from theft, has variable sizes, works 24/7 with no waiting for a clerk, and can fi…

The only difference between what you're describing and Canada Post lockers is variable sizes.

Replying to my own comment - Canada Post actually has varying size lockers now, including outdoors, operated by key. They put the key for the variable size lockers in your small locker to which you have the key.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#168

Post by sudosysgen » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #106

jollybean wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a mailbox with a lock then? We should have had that in 1980. 5 'large mailboxes' for the apartment building, the postman sets the code, locks it, and leaves writes the code on a piece of paper and leaves it in your slot. This is not 'Silicon Valley' innovation.

Electronic locks with electronically delivered opening codes seems like a genuine innovation to me. It's not a fundamentally different concept, but it makes the existing one a lot more practical (e.g. consider the problem of customers stealing keys)

It's much easier to steal a code than a key. Keys work perfectly well, I don't see the issue there.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#169

Post by brundolf » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:35 PM UTC

sbacic wrote: post #10

I'm curious - why is there no open source solution to replace these apps? If not with full functionality, then at least with 80% of the features? The day to day running of the system for each particular market could be handled by an NGO, a cooperative or something of the sort.

You're asking two different questions: an open source app is not an organization, and the organization does more than zero here (as another commenter said, you need cooperation)

Secondly you suggest a co-op, which could maybe work if this were actually a profitable sector. Currently it's still loss-leading

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#170

Post by tsywke44 » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

aerosmile wrote: post #159

tazjin wrote: post #51

It's always strange to read these reports from American cities that sound like something out of war-torn countries. Delivery workers grouping together to defend themselves against hordes of bandits, in well-known places, with no police protection? What the ...? This sort of thing would be unthinkable in central Moscow and most other large European city centres (the only European city I've ever felt unsafe in is Bruss…

Spoiler alert: the murder rate in Russia is 40% higher than in the US, and that's despite the very different gun laws [1][2]. Nothing ruins a good story like facts. That's also why you should always raise before you launch or enter a new market, etc. People are suckers for a story, and our brains are pre-wired to explain phenomena rather than to question them. Once you master that psychology (and manipulation) of peo…

There's a HUGE difference between getting murdered by your friend in a drunken argument, and getting murdered by a stranger street criminal trying to rob you....