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Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

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Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#161

Post by lotsofpulp »

beefield wrote: post #147
jeroenhd wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an iPhone, can you expand on that location services part? Does Safari not show the permission popup when a website asks for it or something? On Android, websites can request location permissions, you can't access any of that stuff by default.

I do not have iphone either, but based on my observations many (most?) iphone owners have disabled safari location services from the os side, so you can't just allow them from the permission popup, but you need to go to the os settings and enable them for safari before you can bypass the permission popup. Again, I do not own an iphone, so not sure if it is exactly like this, but something like that needs to be done i…

I wish I could do that on macOS so I stop getting hit with pop ups in Safari asking me for my location. Homedepot.com is particularly annoying about this.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#162

Post by brendoelfrendo »

toshk wrote: post #18
gubikmic wrote: post #4

One word: Apple. Preventing PWAs is detrimental to users and an abuse of their monopoly.

Its not sufficient of an explanation. For desktop browsers there are also no application launch icons. Probably has most to do with the limits of the UX of a phone. Pulling up a browser and typing in a url, hitting autocomplete is done in 2 seconds. On mobile everything is so much more painful, a lot more desire for one click wonder buttons

Chrome has the ability to save sites as a desktop shortcut. It even prompts you to do so on some web apps, like Stadia, so you can use it like a more "normal" desktop app.

Safari on iOS can do this, too. You can pin a website to your home screen, which is something that I have done for PWAs.

It could have easily gone another way where this was the "normal" behavior of the mobile ecosystem.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#163

Post by ryukafalz »

binkHN wrote: post #138
mattlondon wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift? We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. It took a while for people to transition to smartphones. Likewise getting an app up and running (in addition to their websites) took time for most businesses, and many probably waited before jumping on the band wagon I am sure everyone…

> Even now, I still think "I'll wait and do this on a proper computer". I'm routinely in the same boat, though it's less about the computer and more about not fighting with a tiny monitor. Most things built for mobile are "light" versions, as easily exposing all the bells and whistles on a 6" monitor would be a UI nightmare.

I use a NexDock from time to time for this; some of my Galaxy S20's stock software scales pretty well to a full-size display as they expect you to use one.

I don't think I'd make my phone my primary machine despite this until Linux phones are daily-driver ready for me though. The mobile OS is still too limiting.

(That and while the NexDock is serviceable, its touchpad is awful. Good enough to use occasionally, but I wouldn't want to be stuck with it as my main machine.)

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#164

Post by squarefoot »

mumblemumble wrote: post #151
jeroenhd wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the anger was justified at the time. The rich web experience back in those days was extremely limited (as it still sometimes is, on iOS). There was no way anyone was going to write a music player that could compete with the built-in one using just the "rich web experience". Connection speeds in the original iPhone era were low, as was processing power. Spotify wouldn't have been able to provide you with the s…

As I recall, the "rich web experience" that Jobs was pushing for didn't mean it would be mobile Web for everything. Wasn't his idea that apps could be installed locally, but would be written in JavaScript and use a Web stack for the UI? Given the popularity of tools like Cordova and React Native, and the absolute dominance of Electron on desktop, I'd say he wasn't exactly wrong.

> Wasn't his idea that apps could be installed locally, but would be written in JavaScript and use a Web stack for the UI?

That would essentially have been Firefox OS, minus HTML5 that wasn't yet ready back then.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#165

Post by [deleted] »

mattlondon wrote: post #92
bhawks wrote: post #59

When iPhone and Android hit the scene the 'rich' web experience was primarily flash, silverlight, and some java applets (taking their last breathe). Input APIs for touch, multitouch and gesture were a mess for many years in the browser. Media queries didn't become a w3c recommendation until 2012 so building a ux that looked pleasant really wasn't possible. The memory, cpu, GPU, storage and battery constraints were un…

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift? We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. It took a while for people to transition to smartphones. Likewise getting an app up and running (in addition to their websites) took time for most businesses, and many probably waited before jumping on the band wagon I am sure everyone…

[deleted]

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#167

Post by beebeepka »

pier25 wrote: post #157
bhawks wrote: post #59

When iPhone and Android hit the scene the 'rich' web experience was primarily flash, silverlight, and some java applets (taking their last breathe). Input APIs for touch, multitouch and gesture were a mess for many years in the browser. Media queries didn't become a w3c recommendation until 2012 so building a ux that looked pleasant really wasn't possible. The memory, cpu, GPU, storage and battery constraints were un…

Even today, in the year 2021, browsers do not have native support for gestures which are ubiquitous in the touch screen world. To pan/pinch/swipe you either need to implement it yourself or use a JS library like Hammer which adds unnecessary bloat.

1. It's a good thing that you have to implement them yourself. A lot of this stuff is super arbitrary.

2. Opera had gestures 15+ years ago and it was glorious for those that liked them

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#168

Post by dylan604 »

mattlondon wrote: post #92
bhawks wrote: post #59

When iPhone and Android hit the scene the 'rich' web experience was primarily flash, silverlight, and some java applets (taking their last breathe). Input APIs for touch, multitouch and gesture were a mess for many years in the browser. Media queries didn't become a w3c recommendation until 2012 so building a ux that looked pleasant really wasn't possible. The memory, cpu, GPU, storage and battery constraints were un…

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift? We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. It took a while for people to transition to smartphones. Likewise getting an app up and running (in addition to their websites) took time for most businesses, and many probably waited before jumping on the band wagon I am sure everyone…

>Even now, I still think "I'll wait and do this on a proper computer".

Of all the things that makes me prefer a proper computer, the shenanigans that devs do with various SDKs that are privacy invading pieces of shit have put me off of trusting any apps. Because of the all of the information that makes a mobile device so convenient to use is precisely the data that makes privacy invading data collection so desirable, it will be imposible to ever make it a serious compute platform for me.

For me, the mobile platform is primarily used as the Bar Bet Settler 5000(TM).

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#170

Post by grishka »

dijit wrote: post #109
forty wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also there is no app store on the web, no 30% fee. So no incentive for mobile platform owners to make it first class citizen.

Going to point out the irony of Steve Jobs not wanting an App Store at all and preferring a rich web experience. And devs getting mad at that.

Devs didn't want an app store, they just wanted the ability to install native apps and the SDK to build them.
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