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Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#161

Post by tim333 »

toast0 wrote: post #38
dehrmann wrote: post #29

What I'd love is a standardized DC outlet wired into homes that can power anything from a phone to a desktop computer.

USB Power Delivery 3.1 specifies power over USB-C up to 5A @ 48V. 240W doesn't give you a very powerful desktop: probably an SSD, a 65W CPU and a low power GPU. But that's still a decent desktop. I don't necessarily think it's wise to do 5 amps over USB-C, but it is a standardized DC outlet. Personally, USB-A is still a more useful power outlet, but nobody is insane enough to shove 240W over it.

USB-A 5v 1A managed to power my macbook M1 much to my amazement, which is faster than many desktops.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#162

Post by agumonkey »

IlliOnato wrote: post #37

I read the whole article with sympathetic interest, until the conclusion: > One way to solve the problem of high power devices is simply not to use them -- this is the approach that's followed in sailboats, motorhomes and caravans > Obviously, this strategy implies a change in our way of life. It would mean that electricity is used only for lighting, electronics and refrigeration, while non-electric alternatives are…

For some it's stupid for some it's less clear.

Instead of driving to the gym and bike 1h you may commute by bike (with enough safe paths its pretty nice, not perfect but pretty nice and health improvements come very rapidly as a bonus).

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#163

Post by darkerside »

function_seven wrote: post #44
IlliOnato wrote: post #37

I read the whole article with sympathetic interest, until the conclusion: > One way to solve the problem of high power devices is simply not to use them -- this is the approach that's followed in sailboats, motorhomes and caravans > Obviously, this strategy implies a change in our way of life. It would mean that electricity is used only for lighting, electronics and refrigeration, while non-electric alternatives are…

I get unreasonably angry when Victorian cosplayers think they've found the solution to our wasteful modern life. Simply eschew modern conveniences and spend hours each week beating your clothes against a rock! Simple , instead of grocery shopping twice a month, ditch that wasteful freezer and walk to the farmers' market down the block before dinner each night. Was it cloudy yesterday? Simple! , take a whore-bath¹ at…

Getting unreasonably angry is usually a pretty good sign that you're trying to distract yourself from a good point that was made

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#164

Post by sokoloff »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #124
nielsbot wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how dish washers are more efficient than hand washing? Is it about water use? What if you don’t run the water while you soap your dishes and only rinse them in a rinse tub?

If you're careful about water usage and use cold water, you'll always beat a dishwasher. Another thing people often forget about dishwashers: you're supposed to pre-scrub the hard shit off the dishes. Well, you just did half the mechanical work yourself, why not finish it? I think part of it can also be (at least for me) upbringing. We always handwashed our dishes, and only used the dishwasher a couple times per year…

> Another thing people often forget about dishwashers: you're supposed to pre-scrub the hard shit off the dishes.

Once you’ve removed the bones and massive solids, the modern dishwasher can do an astounding job on the rest. Put a little detergent in the prewash (or on a Bosch, just in the tub) and let the machine do the work. (I also grew up washing dishes before putting them in the dishwasher. It’s almost never needed now, but old habits die hard.)

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#165

Post by temporallobe »

hippari wrote: post #151
hutzlibu wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Simply eschew modern conveniences and spend hours each week beating your clothes against a rock" My question is, if those people actually tried that by themself before suggesting it, or if they just picture the women doing it somewhere. I mean in this specific instance I can imagine they tried. And I did too, while off grid. It gives you a special connection to your clothes. But suggesting this as a general way of l…

I grew up doing all of those by hands, with the exception of washing machine, I still do all of those chores by hands now. And I'm still only in early 20s, not some old dudes. We debloating our computers all the time, so what's wrong with debloating our houses, and our life ?

Absolutely nothing wrong with that (I grew up hanging clothes on a line and using gas stoves, for example), but suggesting these kind of regressions as a drop-in solution to our modern lives is misguided.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#166

Post by lovemenot »

hoseja wrote: post #129
spijdar wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't watched this video in a while so apologies if it's not specifically elaborated on, but I believe it's covered here: https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04 From memory yes, it's partially about water usage, but dishwashers are in general just pretty good overall about efficiently using energy to maximize "food grime removed" per unit of resources fed in. Even if you're careful with water usage while hand washing, I th…

And it's disgusting and water where I live is cheap and plentiful. Hate water austerity imposed on everyone because of megacities and people living where people shouldn't live.

Large human population is an issue. But if you accept that as a premise, Megacities are more efficient in terms of resource usage than equally-sized but geographically dispersed populations.

As for water usage, think first of agriculture, then industry. Only after that do cities come into play. Cities are relatively small water consumers.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#167

Post by ClumsyPilot »

dijit wrote: post #134
JohnWhigham wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're careful about water usage and use cold water, you'll always beat a dishwasher. Another thing people often forget about dishwashers: you're supposed to pre-scrub the hard shit off the dishes. Well, you just did half the mechanical work yourself, why not finish it? I think part of it can also be (at least for me) upbringing. We always handwashed our dishes, and only used the dishwasher a couple times per year…

I grew up handwashing too but I disagree with your assertion. Firstly, you can't wash with cold water because soap doesn't activate with cold water, hot water also kills bacteria and helps cut through grease. Fats themselves are hydrophobic and without activated soap you wont get them off... enjoy your "filmy" dishes. Second, humans expend a lot more energy than you think. The act of standing and using our arms relea…

That energy use is likely an overestimate - thats mostky the heating element and it doesnt run the entire washing cycle or the water would boil

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#168

Post by ClumsyPilot »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #149
maxerickson wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern dishwashers encourage you to do nothing more than scrape off any leftover food, there's not "you are supposed to scrub". (essentially, the instructions are to remove the same things from the dishes you would remove if hand washing them in a sink with no disposal...)

These are dishwasher about 20 years ago not modern. Modern dishwashers are so "efficient" that they are not really removing much. Often I am finding dished come back out also dirty after, so now I spend more water and time on a hand wash again.

I have a modern cheap-ass dishwasher and never had this issue unless i literally leave half eaten leg of lamb on the plate. Maybe your's needs repair?

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#169

Post by ClumsyPilot »

pleb_nz wrote: post #97
tootie wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's frequently much more energy intensive too. Cars are a lot more efficient than horses and dishwashers are more efficient than hand washing.

I read somewhere modern people spend the same amount of time doing chores as someone before electricity. It wouldn't surprise me if it were that far off the truth. We own so much more and are told we need things when in reality maybe we don't?

Have your ever seen what it's like to wash clothes by hand? It's like a 3 hour hour process. Its arduous, tedious, and keeoing the house in order used to be a full-time job

Washing machine has done more to liberate women than all political efforts combined.

Re: Slow Electricity: The Return of DC Power? (2016)

#170

Post by bluGill »

lovemenot wrote: post #74
Robotbeat wrote: post #28

So, I used to be "team DC" as well, but after learning up a bit, I realized there are still a lot of advantages to AC in the 21st Century. One reason DC power is more viable nowadays is (as others here have mentioned) the use of DC-DC converters. They internally actually use AC to do the conversion (usually at much higher frequency to save weight and cost on inductive elements). But they're not super cheap (not cheap…

>> With DC, nothing is really at the same voltage, so you need DC-DC converters all over anyway, This may be the case now, but it's just through historical lack of standardisation, resulting from AC having been the one true standard. It's not inherent to DC. USB PD is attempting to address this issue. It is standardising voltages for DC-powered devices.

USB PD works because they can assume very short distances. It wouldn't work for anything longer than a few meters, and it isn't clear you can safely scale it up to longer distances or higher voltages.
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