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Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

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Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#161

Post by acdha »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #159
chewz wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary. Taliban increased poppy fields by 50 percent in 2020 and they are also pushing meth through their channels. Taliban budget estimated at 2 bilion dollars is supported chiefly by opium trade... https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/07/19/taliban-expanding-drug-...

Questionable story, drugs are a huge taboo for devout muslims. Hard to square with the Taliban rank and file showing strong support for their leaders.

Given all of the other Islamic laws they bend or break, do you really think it’s unlikely that someone desperately in need of operating funds has found a distinction between using drugs themselves and selling them to others?

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#162

Post by megous »

rootsudo wrote: post #149

“We are awaiting a peaceful transfer of power,” Taliban spokesman Suhail Saheen told the BBC. When did terrorist groups get spokespeople, geez.

Ever since they had an aspiration to govern Afghanistan?

Apparently they also have a English website: http://alemarahenglish.net/?p=48412

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#163

Post by chewz »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #159
chewz wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary. Taliban increased poppy fields by 50 percent in 2020 and they are also pushing meth through their channels. Taliban budget estimated at 2 bilion dollars is supported chiefly by opium trade... https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/07/19/taliban-expanding-drug-...

Questionable story, drugs are a huge taboo for devout muslims. Hard to square with the Taliban rank and file showing strong support for their leaders.

Believe in what you want to. Or use Google…

https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/frontpage/2021/May/afghanista...

https://theconversation.com/amp/afghanistan-what-the-conflic...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55048147

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#164

Post by kingofpandora »

koonsolo wrote: post #116
BasDirks wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US played a pivotal role in saving our asses over in Europe, and we are eternally grateful, but ever since, the US has been bad at war. It's not the firepower, it's not the soldiers, and it's not the organization. These are top notch. It's the **ing politicians dragging young men and women into wars not worth fighting.

The Taliban is absolute horrible. US tried to do a good thing here. For me this is a failure of the Afghan people who are not willing to fight for their rights, especially the rights of their wives, sisters and daughters. At least US tried to make a difference. EU is very passive in that sense (I'm from EU).

How would you like a foreign power invading and running your country? You better believe a large part of the Taliban are fighting not out of religious conviction but essentially (Pashtun) nationalism.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#165

Post by rootsudo »

megous wrote: post #162
rootsudo wrote: post #149

“We are awaiting a peaceful transfer of power,” Taliban spokesman Suhail Saheen told the BBC. When did terrorist groups get spokespeople, geez.

Ever since they had an aspiration to govern Afghanistan? Apparently they also have a English website: http://alemarahenglish.net/?p=48412

Wow, that's amazing.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#166

Post by belter »

smhost wrote: post #133
belter wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of this: "Afghanistan may be sitting on one of the richest troves of minerals in the world, valued at nearly $1 trillion, scientists say." https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/rare-earth-afgh... The Chinese will ask no questions, will do the work, and wont bother the Taliban with annoying issues like freedom and democracy. A perfect match.

> freedom and democracy Are you aware that one of the most cliché jokes told outside of the U.S. is some variation of "when an American says democracy, everyone ducks for cover"?

Not about that one but I heard one that I found relevant: How can the US promote Democracy abroad if it can’t even protect it at Home?

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#167

Post by _moof »

bArray wrote: post #40
forgingahead wrote: post #27

I was told in January this year by many gleeful people they were so happy that "competence" was coming back into the US administration. What an absolute bunch of morons and their failures. *Edit: to answer the questions about "what should have been done instead", here is my reply from further down the page: I would have liked to see a withdrawal that did not turn back the clock 20 years to where we were in August 200…

> I was told in January this year by many gleeful people they were so happy that "competence" was coming back into the US administration. I share your frustration - this withdrawal literally couldn't have been done worse. They were so ill prepared they left weapons for the Taliban to pick up, seemingly had zero plan for evacuation of their embassies and failed to tell allied embassies. A withdrawal was definitely on…

I'm frustrated by the withdrawal too but let's not forget we had twenty years to help build a functioning army. It's not as though things were going really great and then oops, we left too suddenly. We've been failing at this--and the Afghan army has been failing to step up--for decades.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#168

Post by chewz »

koonsolo wrote: post #116
BasDirks wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US played a pivotal role in saving our asses over in Europe, and we are eternally grateful, but ever since, the US has been bad at war. It's not the firepower, it's not the soldiers, and it's not the organization. These are top notch. It's the **ing politicians dragging young men and women into wars not worth fighting.

The Taliban is absolute horrible. US tried to do a good thing here. For me this is a failure of the Afghan people who are not willing to fight for their rights, especially the rights of their wives, sisters and daughters. At least US tried to make a difference. EU is very passive in that sense (I'm from EU).

The US approach will never work. It is just naive to think it will.

Chinese approach to radical islam will work. But West will never admit that.

Chinese see islam as totalitarian ideology that is incompatible with Chinese values and competing communist totalitarianism.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#169

Post by kingofpandora »

pjc50 wrote: post #62
CapricornNoble wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>Why would we ever pour money into such a terrible, incompetent system? Not that the US DoD is in any way a model of efficiency, but I suspect you are vastly underestimating the difficulty of the problem set. Over the past 200 years, the British, Soviet, and American empires have all failed to pacify Afghanistan. Probably the Mongols and Alexander the Great struggled too, I need to dig into the history of those cam…

> multi-decade delaying action to stymie Chinese expansion for as long as possible? That wasn't in the original brief, and I've never heard it before in the 20 years? Frankly if it's an expensive unpacifiable area, let China have it. They can sink effort into an unwinnable war instead. Also, having consulted a map, how do you expect China to physically get there?

China won't fight a war in Afghanistan, but it'll be a lot easier for them to get there than the US.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#170

Post by meowface »

juanani wrote: post #147
meowface wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not necessarily doubting this, but I feel like this is always a convenient goto excuse to criticize any terrible, unethical military strategy the US is responsible for. Is there good evidence that certain powerful corporations/people made so much money and have so much power that they could and did successfully pressure politicians for two decades across a bunch of administrations into staying in Afghanistan? Not…

Okay even if this is a serious question, do you think those actually responsible want their names easily known? The powerful ones? They know their heads would be on the chopping block. Ofcourse you ask to make your point - OMG look at these new conspiracists attacking these well off gentlemen, pfft peasants. eff off you monocle wanna-be shithead.

>OMG look at these new conspiracists attacking these well off gentlemen

I'm definitely not at all defending arms dealers and military contractors. I'm no fan of the military-industrial complex, or war, or imperialism, or the US government.

I just want to know - based on evidence - who's directly responsible for us staying in Afghanistan for 23 years. Everyone should want to know this. If the root cause is corrupt politicians and military contractors, that's extremely important information to know. And if it isn't, then the actual root cause is extremely important information to know.

>do you think those actually responsible want their names easily known? The powerful ones? They know their heads would be on the chopping block.

All the more reason to try to figure out who they are, then?

>eff off you monocle wanna-be shithead.

Good argument.

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