Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? • Hacker News Board

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#161

Post by bottled_poe » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

thechao wrote: post #148

apeace wrote: post #144

Is it worth considering whether increased/extended unemployment benefits are a factor in the employee shortage? The article mentions employees on "furlough" who are "biding their time". I'm not from the UK, but this appears to mean the government is paying much of their wage while they are not working. Anecdotally (in the U.S.) I know several people who have remained on unemployment as long as they possibly can, desp…

If labor is a market, laborers are at a fundamental disadvantage compared to employers when it comes to clearance: the employer has an asymmetric advantage in its ability to wait to hire someone; laborers are a lot less capable. I don’t know that unemployment is a good solution, but I think it speaks volumes that people might be using it to balance the standard inequity.

Can you explain this further? It sounds like you may be assuming employers are able to simply not hire and bear the opportunity cost. How are you weighing that up against employee urgency?

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#162

Post by fundad » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #120

bruce343434 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This massive destabilization/bubble you are describing is not a good thing by the way.

Don’t care, I’m sick and tired of kicking this can down the road. Let the bodies pile up in the streets, in the end they’ll beg us to save them.

That also means housed workers will be in more demand, command higher wages and increase cost of living for everyone. So I agree it's good for worker power if that's the point you're trying to make.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#163

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

apeace wrote: post #144

Is it worth considering whether increased/extended unemployment benefits are a factor in the employee shortage? The article mentions employees on "furlough" who are "biding their time". I'm not from the UK, but this appears to mean the government is paying much of their wage while they are not working. Anecdotally (in the U.S.) I know several people who have remained on unemployment as long as they possibly can, desp…

People who are furloughed are still employed. They are not contributing to these statistics.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#164

Post by PragmaticPulp » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

whall6 wrote: post #151

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this stuff about workers disappearing and people reconsidering their lives is pretty much a sideshow of projected narrative that is detached from what is really going on. Well said. We’ve been bombarded with news articles and thought pieces about how COVID has forever changed the workforce, how people are refusing to work jobs they don’t like, how people are quitting en masse because their employers won’t al…

Right. Why would I seek a job if the unemployment benefits pay me nearly as much to do nothing?

And the employer perspective: Why would I try to compete with unemployment benefits that are ending in a few months?

The situation is temporary and has obviously causal factors that are coming to an end soon (unemployment benefits, school out for summer).

Journalists seem to be going out of their way to ignore these and pretend that something else is happening.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#165

Post by commandlinefan » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #120

bruce343434 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This massive destabilization/bubble you are describing is not a good thing by the way.

Don’t care, I’m sick and tired of kicking this can down the road. Let the bodies pile up in the streets, in the end they’ll beg us to save them.

They won’t beg. They’ll vote.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#166

Post by randomdata » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #6

bserge wrote: post #3

I literally can't find a job in any kind of engineering. Applied for dozens of cleaning and production positions and couldn't get a job. You know what the media has become? A cesspool of bullshit unworthy of any trust. No wonder so many people mistrust actual experts, it's hard to even tell who they are.

I think the shortage is in positions companies don’t want to pay much. At least anecdotally, I’ve seen and heard a lot about restaurants having cook shortages. This doesn’t negate your point. I’d say it just bolsters your point.

Someone who isn’t willing to pay enough does not qualify as demand, thus is not considered a participant in the market, and therefore would not impact a shortage situation. A shortage occurs when an external mechanism prevents price from rising. Choosing to not pay more is internal.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#167

Post by UncleMeat » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #103

Waterluvian wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you’re not trying to interview right here and now, but listing tools doesn’t move the needle. That’s not what employability in tech is measured by. I’m trying to hire for a number of software positions and that’s a common issue I see in resumes. I don’t want to hear that you’re a wizard with a hammer. I want to know about the times you lead a team in building a house from start to finish.

> I want to know about the times you lead a team in building a house from start to finish. What if that's not something I can do? If I'm really good at tech, am really good in terms of writing code fast, correct, and readable, but management just isn't for me? Would you not hire me for a software position, also not at a lower salary or with a junior label or something?

It isn’t unreasonable to want to hire people that will be able to grow into senior positions. If you are demonstrating that you’ll never do that, this is a red flag for hiring.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#168

Post by bottled_poe » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #139

MattGaiser wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same thing about unemployment. There is no such thing as an unemployment problem in an economy, just workers who want too much and think too highly of their skills.

That's one of the problems with minimum wage laws: they prevent the labor market from clearing. Some people want to work but due to lack of skills their labor is worth less than the minimum and thus no employer will hire them. I understand that people can't live on less than the minimum wage. But the solution to that is a proper social safety net, not imposing arbitrary minimum wage limits.

Ugh, gross. That’s just slavery with extra steps.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#169

Post by lugged » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

apeace wrote: post #144

Is it worth considering whether increased/extended unemployment benefits are a factor in the employee shortage? The article mentions employees on "furlough" who are "biding their time". I'm not from the UK, but this appears to mean the government is paying much of their wage while they are not working. Anecdotally (in the U.S.) I know several people who have remained on unemployment as long as they possibly can, desp…

Pretty much.

I was sceptical of that they did in Aus but it sort of worked.

Instead of just giving everyone unemployment they,

Doubled unemployment for those that needed it

Created a new system that injected money into businesses, but only if they kept you employed, i.e. subsidized wages.

This let things snap back really quickly. Though there is still a lot of damage and the new lock down in Sydney is hurting without the same measures again.

The thing were finding is those that left jobs are just hard to get back into jobs, it takes time to hire negotiate and train people

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#170

Post by grosswait » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

freeone3000 wrote: post #147

pcthrowaway wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The increased oversight of junior employees is an investment in them becoming senior in a 2-3 year timeframe. So in your mind, they go straight from junior to senior? I've been developing software for 8 years now, and still call myself intermediate. Senior is for people with incredibly deep knowledge of multiple technologies and how they work together, in my mind.

We don't have an intermediate role, the step after Software Development Expert II is Senior Software Development Expert. This is pretty consistent among peer companies. Your description of senior isn't inaccurate, but, after many years of schooling, personal development experience, and on-the-job training, it's expected that people will gain that level of expertise in at least one domain -- maybe not to the same degr…

Have you considered that this model is perhaps only a current trend and that it isn’t necessarily the “correct” model?